Birth, Baby!

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Welcome, this is Birth, Baby.

Your hosts are Ciarra Morgan and Samantha Kelly.

Ciarra is a birth doula, hypnobirthing educator, and pediatric sleep consultant.

Samantha is a birth doula, childbirth educator, and lactation counselor.

Join us as we guide you through your options for your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey.

All right, we are back today with our fifth episode in our diastasis series.

And Dr.

Milo, we are going to be talking about hormones today, right?

So tell us a little bit about why we're talking about hormones.

How in the heck does that have anything to do with diastasis?

Yeah, so when we were kind of planning out this podcast, you and I had chatted about really how can we make this topic well-rounded and what are all the pieces?

Because it is such a complex issue.

I think sometimes we think that it's just like, I have a weak core and so I need to do core to close my diastasis, but it's so much more encompassing than that.

And we've talked a lot in the previous episodes about more of the kind of biomechanical side of things, because there are lots of parts to the biomechanical reason why you might have diastasis.

But hormones can also play a role.

So I want to talk about a side of diastasis that we maybe don't think about all that often.

And actually, I got very interested in this topic because I was working with a client who had a huge diastasis.

It was almost four fingers wide.

I could kind of stick my fist in her diastasis.

It was really big.

And we rehabbed it pretty consistently for about a year.

And we got it pretty dang close to being close.

But there was still probably like a finger and a half gap after all that time.

And we just could not get it to come together all the way.

So she went and she did some hormone testing.

Specifically, she did some Dutch testing, which is a urine hormone test that you can do.

She did that.

And she came back to me like a month or two later.

And she said, the functional person I'm working with did this hormone test.

And she told me that I have no testosterone.

And so I probably was struggling to build muscle.

And I was doing all this exercise and it was doing a lot for me.

But she's like, I wonder if this is the reason why I couldn't get it to close all the way.

And so this was probably a year and a half ago that we had this conversation.

And that was like a light bulb moment for me.

As far as sometimes there are pieces to the puzzle that we're just not thinking of.

And I think hormones is one of those pieces that we just don't think about a lot when we're looking at kind of the more physical reasons for the postpartum body or a diastasis specifically.

I'm one of those people.

I'm one of those people that 100% would have thought it's just a physical element of your abdominal muscle, right?

And so how long did you say you worked with her before she ended up doing that testing?

Yeah, it had to have been about a year.

Okay, so imagine, imagine a year of really hard work and then finding out that this whole time you had a deficit that you did not know was making a difference.

That's crazy.

Hormones are crazy.

We're gonna get into this more, but men, they don't have the same fluctuations that women do with hormones.

We fluctuate daily and we fluctuate monthly.

And then you throw birth and postpartum into it and hormones are all over the place and they just have such a big impact on our ability to build muscle and move and function and things like that.

So yeah, we've been getting kind of nerdy about it.

And so about a year ago, Dr.

Michelle came into our office to launch our functional nutrition program.

And so she does all of our hormone testing and balancing.

She runs all the lab tests for us and she's about to get really nerdy into kind of hormones and diastasis and our cycle and breastfeeding and anything else that has to do with kind of the postpartum period we're gonna chat about.

So without further ado, I would love for you to introduce yourself Dr.

Michelle and thank you so much for being with us.

Yeah, thank you guys.

Yeah, thank you guys so much for having me.

So yeah, I'm Dr.

Michelle.

I'm like the lead functional nutrition practitioner at BirthCo.

I would say I have a big passion for women's wellness and I would say like my specialized focus is definitely in hormones and also like gut digestive health.

So those are some key aspects that I help women with.

And from all phases of life, like optimal pregnancy to postpartum, to perimenopause, menopause, all the things.

Yeah.

And tell us a little bit more about what sparked your interest in hormones.

Cause I have heard your story about getting off birth control and things like that, but I would love for you to share with our listeners as well.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Like, cause that's a big part of like, even both the hormone and gut aspect is like a big part of why I do what I do.

Comes a lot from your story.

And I think that's most of the time for most of us as providers.

But yeah, I grew up really holistically.

My dad's a Cairo.

My mom's like a holistic nurse.

All the things, grew up really holistically.

But I also grew up in like a religious background.

So once I started having sex and like all the things, like I was terrified of getting pregnant.

So I got on birth control, because I just didn't understand my cycle.

Like I just thought, oh, if you have sex, like you're going to get pregnant.

So for me, that was a big thing.

Just understanding my cycle and knowing that there's a very small window when you can get pregnant.

But I didn't understand all that.

So for me, I, you know, got on birth control right away and had some like symptoms.

I was like super nauseous.

I was throwing up a lot, had lots of different symptoms.

I was like, oh, this isn't right.

And I knew intuitively just growing up in a holistic household.

I was like, I don't think this is aligned with my body.

It's just kind of like, you know, it's helping me for a time, but it wasn't optimal.

So I was having lots, lots of symptoms that weren't normal for me at the time.

And so I went through a phase of like trying to understand the menstrual cycle and all the things and kind of led me on my own path to understanding hormones.

I was able to get off birth control, kind of balance my hormones naturally, and dealt with like post birth control syndrome, which leads a lot of like nutrient deficiencies, hormonal imbalances, all the things.

So that was kind of my hormonal journey.

I also like deal with IBS, lots of Crohn's, IBS in my family.

So that's another aspect, like gut health is really important to me too.

And kind of that's been my main aspect as far as like a functional medicine approach.

That's awesome.

I, yeah, a lot of us don't know like what the heck's going on with our bodies, right?

And so many of us are not taught the why behind things.

And here we go, take a medicine.

This is just like for anything.

We take a medication to help one thing, AKA not get pregnant.

And then in this situation, and then we have this cumulative effect of all of these symptoms or side effects of the medication that then like, now I need to take a bunch more medicines to get rid of these things, you know?

So how did you, like once you started working with Dr.

Milo and helping with this testosterone or lack of testosterone and all of that, can you explain to us a little bit how the heck that even matters?

What does that mean in terms of trying to heal your body and not having enough testosterone?

Yeah, and I think that we always think of testosterone as like, that's what dudes have, right?

That's what I was thinking.

I need testosterone, but no one thinks about, oh, women need testosterone too.

Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, we'll go right into testosterone, which I think is a really good way to start it, because I think for us as females, so there's like three major sex hormones, just kind of break it down.

There's our estrogen, our progesterone, our testosterone.

Those are our three primary sex hormones, for the most part.

And testosterone is totally thought of as a, and it is the dominant sex hormone in males, don't get me wrong, but at the same time, it has a lot of really important functions related to us as females as well.

It's also kind of unique compared to our other sex hormones, our estrogen, progesterone, our primary, well, and this is more for cycling females, which I'm sure like your audience and all of us here, that's more conducive to you.

But progesterone and estrogen are mainly produced by our ovaries, but our testosterone is kind of unique.

It's produced like maybe like 25% by our ovaries, 25% by like our adrenal glands, and then the rest is produced by like our adipose or fat tissue.

So it's kind of unique as far as like even how, there's so many unique aspects of it, to be honest, but that's another unique aspect of how it's produced in our bodies.

And testosterone, as far as like some key functions when it comes to women's health, it really supports our muscle mass, our libido, healthy hair and skin, our stamina too, like our motivation.

And it's really important for our mood and memory.

And lastly, another thing I think is really interesting because I deal a lot with like fertility and stuff like that, it's really important for our egg quality, which I don't think most people know that.

So those are some like key factors, I would say that testosterone really supports in our women's health specifically.

Dr.

Michelle, I'm sitting here giggling because I'm thinking of all of the people that are going to listen to this podcast, just like me sitting here listening to you, I'm like, I don't know, it sounds like I probably need more of it.

Yeah, yeah, I think I probably, you're like sex, libido and mood and all of these things you're saying, like, I don't know, sign me up, I probably need some.

Probably need it and I think a big factor in that is like another unique aspect, not only like where testosterone is produced, but also kind of the progression of it in us as females throughout our life and throughout our like, you know, different stages of life.

It's interesting because our peak, our highest level of testosterone is usually like our late twenties.

And then literally from our thirties onward, it just down climbs like gradually.

And unless you're doing active, holistic strategies to support it, supplement, you know, it can be different things.

It can be a lot of holistic strategies, nutrition, exercise.

I love to get into like just some of my key like strategies to help it.

But you know, nutrition, some lifestyle strategies, how to do supplementation that can help this.

Other than that, it kind of just on this slow decline.

It's a part of aging, unfortunately, but that's just really interesting.

Once you hit 30, it decreases.

And I know a lot of times like in our day and age, a lot of us are becoming mamas a little later in life.

So I think this is really like an important factor as far as like, you know, moms that are in their 30s and 40s, like your testosterone is already on the decline and we'll get into it, I'm sure, cause I know we're kind of focusing on this postpartum phase, but that also leads to different complications as far as like sex hormones being suppressed.

So can really have a big factor on overall strength, trying to build muscle mass, trying to like even recoup and recover after exercise too, can affect that collagen synthesis, all these things can really have a big impact as far as like diastasis, you know, recti recovery and all the things.

So I like to give like just some like key strategies if that would be helpful, some of my favorite things to kind of help support testosterone naturally, cause that's something like we have this, right?

And we know it and it's good to have that awareness, but how can we help mitigate it?

How can we help support our bodies to boost our testosterone naturally during these phases when we're having these challenges?

Pull out your notes, Ciarra.

I'm like, here's my top ones.

I'm like, rattle down.

Studying for myself.

Really, this podcast is just to help improve ourselves.

That's really what it is.

And if you get some benefit out of it, great.

Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

So two biggest things as far as like, what specific type of exercise can really help you and how much do you need every week to like, at least get like, you know, either like minimum benefit, maximum benefit somewhere in between.

So two biggest exercises that you can do to support natural testosterone production are gonna be resistance training.

And that can be anything in it.

I would say it's really based on like where you're at.

Like if you're not a big, like heavy weight lifter, like that's totally fine.

You can do, you know, banded exercises, body weight exercises, any kind of resistance training is gonna boost your testosterone naturally.

Big way to do it.

And another specific exercise is not just like cardio, but high intensity interval training.

Like if you look up that, you know, on any, you know, YouTube or whatever, like wherever you go to get your workouts, like high intensity interval training is a specific type of cardio workout.

And that in any kind of resistance training doesn't matter what it is.

Those two are the best as far as like exercise types to boost your testosterone naturally.

And I would say minimum, as much as you can, three times a week, 30 minutes will give you the most benefit.

Anything more than that's great, but like if you wanna just get like as much benefit as you can, I would say that's, you know, that's where I would focus.

The next question was, is there such thing as over training?

Like is it, well, I know there is, I know there is in general, but in terms of balancing hormones, is there a certain point where you're depleading yourself so much that it's not gonna help?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

And I think the biggest thing is, is like starting from, like, and that's a very individual question in my experience because it's like, if someone's like a really, you know, they work out, you know, all the time, their body's gonna be like more adopted to that versus someone that, you know, is just used to walking.

I wouldn't necessarily like throw them into high intense exercise.

I think that's a very, for me, a very subjective thing, like very individualized aspect.

But this is just more a general, like three times a week, 30 minutes is where I would go for most people.

Other than that, like there's definitely people that could do more than that less, but always there's an aspect of overdoing it.

And I think especially in the postpartum phase, which I think like, you know, kind of like, you know, with the focus that we're talking about today, definitely a big aspect.

I'm definitely about balance and not overdoing it because that can also be a detriment to your hormones, too.

And it doesn't feel attainable to do much more than that.

I mean, even three times a week for 30 minutes, as opposed to what a parent feels daunting a little bit.

But also if you break it down and you think about how you can fit that into your week, it's more digestible than thinking, oh my gosh, I've got to be working out five days a week.

And like, it has to be an hour, like 30 minutes.

Okay, like bite sized chunks.

So I know that you didn't make that up to make it so that it's that way, but it's nice that it is something that's more doable.

Samantha, you have to eat three times a week.

Yeah, because it could be more, it could definitely be more than that.

But also it's like one of those things, like I said, it's like meeting yourself throughout, which I'm a big proponent of, I'm all about balance and gradual progression.

But it's like even something like, just body weight exercises, you're just doing like squats or some lunges.

Like it doesn't have to be like this, I think at least I struggle with that.

I'm sure everyone does, but like trying to like, exacerbate that in our heads, like it can be something like just some squats, like, and some lunges, like it doesn't have to be, we're like loading our bodies and doing these heavy weights.

That's not what I'm talking about.

And there's people that do that and that's awesome.

And I love that, but it's not all of us.

And I think you just have to meet yourself.

Yeah, even like banded, banded exercises, doing different kinds of banded exercises is resistance training.

So like, that's the thing.

It doesn't have to look like this heavy weight lifting.

That's not what I'm talking about.

It can be body weight.

It can be bands, resistance bands.

Doesn't have to be anything crazy for sure.

I saw Samantha pulling out her barbell, so I'm glad you said that.

Absolutely, that's what I was about to do.

I was about to start squatting 200 pounds over here.

That's what I love.

You all know me.

Are you a heavy weight lifter, Samantha?

Sometimes I pick up Chinese food and they can get really heavy.

So, yes.

I understand that.

I'm like girl, I get it.

Samantha and I both go to HotWorks.

Hashtag this is not sponsored by HotWorks, but hey, if you want to.

HotWorks is where we go.

So we do like the infrared sauna training and she and I live kind of far from each other.

So we don't even work out together, but we know what classes each other take because we both go to the same type.

But there are high intensity interval training rooms and then there are some more like ISO rooms.

And one of those is a resistance bands type class.

And I never do that one.

So when you were saying that, I was like, oh, maybe I should go in there a little room sometime.

I'm like go to the hit in the resistance bands.

I love the hit.

I love the hit because I can get in there.

It's 12 minutes and you're done, which is not 30 minutes.

But I feel like when you're in, you know, in like 125 degrees, your body is like, oh, okay, yeah.

It's increased.

Your metabolism is increased for sure.

Yeah.

But that is what we do.

But it was kind of nice when you said that I was like, okay, I have access to those things.

Like I can do that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which I would say like that would be great to do.

Like alternate, like, hey, maybe one day you go to hit, one day you go to the resistance band.

Like, yeah, it doesn't have to be anything crazy.

Any kind of strength training will do it.

So that's something I think can be encouraging to like, whoever is listening, whether you're like super weightlifter or like barely starting out, like it can be as simple or as intense as you want it, which is really, really, I think encouraging.

It does the same thing.

It's about meeting yourself where you're at really.

Exactly.

And that's like, that's where it has to be.

Cause if you overdo it, it's not good for your hormonal balance either, which that's like definitely what I focus on.

And that's not healthy as well.

So those are kind of like, as far as like exercise techniques, I'm also really into nutrition, obviously if like a master's in nutrition.

So that's definitely a big perspective that I take into this too.

So as far as like nutrition strategies to help with boosting testosterone naturally would be like making sure you have enough zinc in your diet, zinc rich foods, which can be things like oysters are really rich in zinc, beef, seeds, specifically pumpkin seeds.

Pumpkin seeds, I think are the richest source.

And then like chickpeas, those are some just like good sources of zinc.

That's really essential to, it's like a precursor nutrient to testosterone production, essentially probably one of the most important, I would say.

So interesting.

I don't feel like I ever hear about zinc unless you're sick.

And then they're like, you know, take all the zinc.

It's super important for your immune system, for sure.

But actually it's probably the, it's one of the biggest precursors to producing your testosterone as well, which is really interesting.

But yeah, usually, yeah, that's true.

Like I didn't really think about that, but it's usually kind of, you know, gets that wrap as far as being related to our immune system.

But it's really important to, it's an essential precursor to our testosterone production as well.

Another thing, oh yeah, go ahead.

I learned recently that a lot of hormonal birth controls also deplete your zinc, because I was doing research on my own, like post-hormone or post birth control, like hormone balancing.

And zinc is one of the big ones after you get off hormonal birth control that you have to like, it wipes your body a bit.

Yeah, and I think that's so important because so many women are on birth control.

So it's a very like important point to touch on.

I think that we, most of us need a lot of zinc in our daily like nutrition for sure.

Basically, I'm hearing that they need to get this like man shot birth control thing figured out since their hormones don't get jacked with as much as ours.

So we can stop taking this stuff.

I'm like, why can't the men take all this stuff?

Like, why is it always on us?

I'm sorry that I'm like, I'll get off my soapbox.

This is not what this is for.

I saw a commercial for one the other day though.

They're making one.

They're making a shot.

Are they for men?

I guess.

Tell you, as the mother of a son, I sure hope by the time my son is of that age, there is a shot because I would like him to be able to also protect himself.

I think it's so important.

It's like a lot of it falls on us as females.

But anyways, I'm like, I will digress.

So I'll continue on with the other nutrients.

So another really important nutrient is magnesium.

As far as it's also, I would say zinc is probably like a big one for sure.

But magnesium is also a really important precursor to testosterone production as well.

And so just making sure you're having like plenty of magnesium rich foods, like that can be leafy greens like kale and spinach, bananas and almonds, all the things.

Those are some really rich sources.

Other than that, a couple last months, as far as nutrients would be adequate protein.

If you're wanting to build muscle mass specifically and just kind of like support yourself in diastasis recovery and all the things, I would say one gram of protein for your one pound of body weight is ideal.

As far as you're wanting to build muscle mass, it can kind of depend on your nutrient goals or your weight goals or all the things.

But if you're wanting to like really build muscle mass and support your diastasis recovery, that's where I would say would be like where I'd put you.

And then lots of healthy fats and omega-3s, which are going to be through fatty fish like salmon, nuts and seeds, all those things to help support your testosterone production because it's a steroid hormone.

The backbone is cholesterol, which is from healthy fats essentially.

Last thing I would say as far as postpartum recovery and building muscle mass, especially with like diastasis recovery would be if you're interested in certain supplements, just because since your testosterone is low, it's going to be a bit harder to recover post-exercise.

Creatinine is a really, really like the most well-researched supplement to help support muscle growth essentially.

So creatinine is a good one.

And then collagen just to help support muscle recovery.

Since your testosterone is low, the collagen synthesis is kind of suppressed.

So other than that, those would be like some key aspects as far as lifestyle and nutrition that I would give to like any postpartum mama that's really wanting to recover postpartum.

And as taking like supplements as in like pills and stuff, is that going to be, you know, I guess digested the same process, the same by our bodies, or is it really better to try to get all of that through our nutrition?

I'm definitely a big proponent of trying to get everything from your nutrition as much as you can.

So collagen, it's like, you know, bone broth, creatine is like in all our protein sources.

So making sure you're getting that adequate protein.

I just like always like to add that because it's like, you know, like, for example, especially for like mamas that are listening that are breastfeeding, like your body's under an increased nutrient demand.

Sometimes it can be hard to get all the nutrients you need during those, you know, just those phases of life where your body's under increased demand essentially.

So I'm always a big proponent of getting everything you can through your diet.

So eating, like I said, like as much protein as you can, one gram of protein per your pound of body weight is usually the like ideal amount to build muscle, to kind of just support your hormones overall, especially like, especially when you're in that like breastfeeding phase when your body's in increased demand, that's not like the same amount for everyone.

And then collagen, you know, you could get that through like bone broth and stuff too.

But not everyone has that, but that's like a food source, like bone broth, especially now it's kind of a little chillier, at least where we are in Texas, like bone broth, getting a good like chicken stew going on chicken with all like all these like good nutrient dense veggies could be an option as far as you want to do it through diet, which I'm always, I always like to give all that I can both, you know, just depending where everyone is.

So kind of aiming to get it through your diet versus the supplements and then maybe filling in the gaps with supplements.

That sounds like a full time job.

I'm just going to say, it does.

It sounds like so hard to eat that much food.

I'm like, is there a protein bar that has that?

Oh wait, that's probably not very good for you.

Like, I just cannot imagine getting in like the quantity of that food.

You have to be really intentional about what you're putting in because the Pringles aren't going to add any of that stuff.

So you have to eat the Pringles and.

Yes.

I mean, like my go-to, I always say I'm like, have a nutrient dense smoothie, really good protein powder.

Cause at least if you have that, like still doing all the things, but like it's hard to get all the nutrients you need, especially when you're in like pregnancy, breastfeeding, whether there's like, there's an increased demand on your nutrients and your macronutrients, your protein intake, your healthy fats, your carbs, all the things like it's a lot to take in.

So it's like trying to balance that for sure is definitely, definitely can be a challenge.

Ciarra, I feel like you're targeting me with those Pringles comments, because I was walking around on our vacation with multiple cans of Pringles the whole time.

So I just want to say, please, ma'am, stop centering yourself because there are tons of, I cannot have Pringles because they have wheat in them.

And so, me neither Ciarra, I'm there with you girl.

The only reason I said it is because there are a lot of them in my pantry because my son is obsessed with pizza Pringles right now.

I make his lunches and that's what came to mind.

You were not in the diet.

And so then I have the same diet.

It's fine.

So when we're talking about, you mentioned like breastfeeding and hormones.

So how does breastfeeding affect your hormones and your ability to like heal the diastasis?

Yeah, that's a great question.

Breastfeeding for sure has a huge major impact on hormonal balance and hormonal levels overall.

During breastfeeding, for the most part, I would say, and I've worked a lot like postpartum mamas, and most of the hormones are kind of at an all time low.

And part of the reason is, we'll touch kind of, I think on like sex hormones first, but when your prolactin is really high, which is essential to make sure that you have adequate milk supply, right?

Really key hormone.

When prolactin is high, it suppresses your sex hormones.

So it suppresses your, the three major ones, we'll kind of touch on estrogen, progesterone and testosterone, suppresses all of those.

So they tend to be at an all time low.

And it's kind of interesting because it's one of those things where it's like, the body's kind of like built in safety mechanism to make sure that you have enough nutrients to nourish your new baby and not have a menstrual cycle to kind of like deplete yourself, right?

So it's really good and it's good for this phase of life, but also it has some downsides, which I'm like all things do.

But your body, your hormones are really prioritizing breastfeeding and it can have some negative impacts as far as, getting back into an exercise routine and just postpartum recovery overall, for sure.

So as far as like, I always like to kind of touch on like the hormonal balance overall, and then kind of like what the symptoms or signs could be.

So as far as sex hormones, so like I said, you have your major hormones are your, sex hormones are your estrogen, progesterone, testosterone.

Low estrogen can present with signs such as brain fog, fatigue, vaginal dryness, care loss.

Those are some things that low estrogen can present as.

Low progesterone can present as, I would say that's like a really key hormone for us as females, as far as like a calming and kind of centering hormone.

So low progesterone can present as like baby blues, high anxiety, insomnia, difficulty sleeping, things like that.

Low testosterone, which we kind of touched on already, but low libido, low stamina, low motivation for working out, which can be tough to not have that motivation to go into your exercise routine.

And then low stamina to keep you going.

So those are some things as far as sex hormones that can kind of be imbalanced.

Another big factor I see a lot with the postpartum momas I work with is adrenal fatigue or adrenal burnout, if you ever have heard those terms.

But basically what that means is your cortisol and your DHEA, which are your major adrenal hormones, are super low as well.

And this is gonna be a common theme.

I'm just like, postpartum, everything's low, your tank is low, you're depleted.

I'm like, that's just kind of a common theme as far as all the hormones.

So low cortisol, low DHEA, especially due to the demands of pregnancy, labor and delivery, breastfeeding, can put a big significant stress on our adrenal glands and they think they kind of just, they're on this like high stress mode, high sympathetic mode, they get depleted, right?

And they can't produce adequate cortisol anymore.

That's kind of like essentially what happens.

And so adrenal fatigue, as far as like signs and symptoms, if you're dealing with that in present as irritability, brain fog, feeling low energy, just feeling really like super drained and out of it overall, essentially, is kind of like a good, like adrenal burnout, adrenal fatigue picture.

Lastly, as far as like how breastfeeding can affect your hormones, postpartum period, period can affect your hormones.

Acute thyroiditis is a big thing postpartum.

I would say, because thyroiditis basically means there's inflammation in your thyroid.

I would say, I mean, I've worked with lots of postpartum mamas and most of the time it's hypothyroid, which kind of follows the picture of everything's kind of low, like your tank's low, which I think makes sense.

If you've ever been a mom, I've been myself, but I worked with a lot of moms and I'm like, that is a very just overall picture, right?

Tank is low.

It's definitely represented in your hormonal balance for sure when it's tested.

So I would say most of the time it's hypothyroid, which means lower thyroid hormones, lower functioning thyroid is pretty common postpartum as well.

And the thyroid is like super sensitive to all these changes and fluctuations in your sex and adrenal hormones overall.

So it's kind of like, it's almost like a secondary thing.

I think, I don't know, as far as like the clients I work with, they always go to thyroid and I'm like, usually it's actually your sex and adrenal leads to this secondarily, most of the time.

It's more of a secondary kind of effect, but it's really sensitive to all the fluctuations of your sex and adrenal hormone changes.

So it also kind of follows lead, but that acute thyroiditis and that acute hypothyroidism postpartum can present with different signs, like low energy, low metabolism, low mood overall.

So those are some things as far as like hormonal imbalances, how that can affect mom as postpartum.

And really it plays a big role in your energy, your metabolism, your mood, so many important things.

And I think overall it's like, when you have that fatigue, lower mood, lower motivation, it can be difficult to be like consistent for a new exercise routine or program.

And that slow metabolism can also be like, if you're consistent and you do the work, you'll see changes, but it's not as like, it's not as rewarding, I feel like, before, if that makes sense, because your metabolism has changed, your hormones have changed.

So I know it can be defeating for moms, but that's like something also where working out is super important for kind of boosting those feel good hormones of like your endorphins and your serotonin, your dopamine to get you in a better state and kind of, and it does boost your metabolism, but the hard thing is, is it, it's slower and you have to like keep at it.

And that's like, that's the thing that's tough.

Yeah, and also it's hard to motivate yourself.

It's hard to, it's like the chicken or the egg, like it's hard to get there, which you have to get there to keep wanting to go, but then you don't like getting there in the first place is really tough.

So Dr.

Milo bringing this back around to when people come and when people come and work with you, how, you know, if they are breastfeeding, I'm sure there are people listening to this going, well, I am breastfeeding.

Is there even any point in trying to start healing myself yet?

Yeah, so I'm just going to say yes.

The sooner you start, the better for lots of reasons.

And not even just the reasons like Dr.

Michelle said that it boosts your mood in general.

But if you, your hormones are really low already and then you're not exercising.

So you're not doing things that would help boost any of the hormones.

You're not helping boost your metabolism.

So it's going to get even lower.

And then your body, even when you post, you stop breastfeeding and then you think that you'll transition to exercise.

But by then your body is so out of whack.

Your hormones are so low.

Your muscle imbalances are so bad that trying to get your body back to what it was before pregnancy, after all this time of not feeding your body the way that it wants to be fed as far as movement and exercise and hormones go is so, so much harder.

And we've worked with people who six months postpartum are ready to get back at it and people who are a year, two years, three years.

And I promise you the ones that come back sooner, even if it's really hard the first couple of weeks, and even if their bodies changes are slower, they're still in the long run so much better off and the process of going through and healing is easier and quicker if they start early.

Even if they're still holding onto a little bit of extra, like as women, we hold on to extra fat when we're breastfeeding.

But then when you go off of breastfeeding, if you have kept up good movements and you've built some muscle underneath some of those fat stores, then as your body gets rid of those fats, that physique that you're looking for before will come out as far as like the cosmetic look of diathesis.

So I always tell moms, if you can start sooner, the better, for so, so many different reasons.

Don't wait, also don't wait until you're done having all your babies, because not only have you depleted your body once, but you've done it two, three, four times.

And that case or that patient is just so much harder to deal with.

And that is the patient, the one that hasn't healed between each pregnancy, that has to have the hormone testing, that has to have very specific physical therapy, that needs help with their posture, that needs help with their nutrition.

There are hundreds of pieces if you wait too long, whereas if you just heal between each one, we can pick two or three pieces, kind of build you back up, then you have another baby, and then we, you know, heal, take a couple pieces, heal you again, have another baby.

And that process is so much easier on your body, your body's health, your mental health, and all that.

And if there's anyone that just clicked on this one, because the title says hormones, and you have not gone and listened to the episode called Amy's Story, he talks about how depleted she was and all of these things.

So I think that this is the perfect episode to have right after that one, because that's exactly what her experience was.

And, you know, in, for example, in hypno-birthing classes, I talk to people about affirmations.

And sometimes one of the affirmations is, I am a calm and confident birth partner.

And one time I had a dad go, I'm not.

And I laughed and I'm like, fake it till you make it.

You know, keep doing it.

And it's kind of this similar thought to, I don't wanna go to BirthCo or wherever.

I don't wanna do my online program, whatever for my diastasis.

It's like, you've just got to mind over matter it at first and power through because once you do, it's such a beautiful falling into place, like a domino effect of now those hormones are rectifying a little bit.

Now you have more of a desire to go.

Now you're getting into it.

Now you're starting to see some results.

And like those things just fall upon each other and it can be a more smooth transition.

But it is really, really hard in the beginning and don't feel bad about it or beat yourself up that you just stink and don't feel like it.

Full agree, full agree.

That's awesome.

I just want to add, like, I think a lot of us, like feel like, oh, we have to wait for that feeling to do an action or follow through on something.

But a lot of times, unfortunately, I wish it wasn't this way, but it's just kind of the way life rolls.

But it's like, you have to do an action to get the feeling.

So it's like healthy habits are a lot that way.

Like, I want to feel better.

I want to feel more myself.

I want to feel more positive or all the things.

It's like a lot of times you have to do the action and then you get the feeling.

A lot of times when it comes to healthy habits, that's something I would like encourage moms in it.

It's hard.

It's like important to have grace with yourself through the process and know, like, all these things we're talking about, like have grace with yourself, connect with other moms that, you know, you're not, to know that you're not alone, but I think it's really important to know that the feelings are not gonna be there.

You're gonna have to probably push through, but once you push through and do these healthy habits, it's gonna make you feel better on the, you know, on the back end.

Definitely.

That's definitely a reminder.

We all feel.

We're all like, I feel.

That's how we're all starting our conversation.

Real quick, I know that this isn't necessarily about diastasis, but we're talking about women's hormones and we're talking about working out.

And there are different schools of thought.

Some people are like, when you're on your cycle, you need to give yourself a lot of calm and rest and all of these things.

Can you tell us a tiny bit about how hormones affect us during our actual menstrual cycle and during that bleeding phase?

And if we should be being more gentle or if it's okay to work out through that, or is it kind of, you shouldn't?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

I love this question.

And I talk a lot because all my clients are women.

So definitely specialize in this 100%.

And it's one of those things, we'll get into it.

I like to break down the menstrual cycle, what it means, what each phase you should focus on.

But at the end of the day, it can also vary based on your goals.

If you're a big marathon runner, if you're weightlifter and you have these goals, you can still apply this cycle-sinking approach, but it's gonna look a little different for you.

So I think it would be helpful to just kind of break down the menstrual cycle a little bit and kind of like give an overview and then maybe kind of fine tune it as far as like if there's anyone listening that is a big weightlifter or marathon runner.

So I think the cycle-sinking approach, it's really essential just because a lot of research up until this point has been mostly like male participants looking at male physiology and our physiology as females is so dynamic.

It changes day to day and it changes month to month more than males do.

So it's a lot more dynamic, fluctuates a lot more.

So it's just still something that I feel like research hasn't necessarily caught up to, but a lot of people that women that specialize in hormones and things like that are kind of on the forefront of this.

But when it comes to your menstrual cycle, as far as like kind of understanding it, typically on average lasts about 28 days for most of us.

Of course, you know, give or take a few days, no biggie.

And it's mainly, I like to break it down into four main phases, as far as like it makes more sense to me and kind of like my recommendations as far as what to focus on, as far as like your exercise routine.

So the four main phases are your menstrual cycle, your menstrual phase, your follicular phase, your ovulatory phase, and then your luteal phase.

So your first phase, your menstrual phase, is about day one to day five of your menstrual cycle.

And day one of your cycle is day one of your period, or day one of your menses, essentially.

And during this time, your hormones are at an all time low.

Your estrogen and progesterone specifically are at their lowest point.

And because of this, it's really important to, as much as possible, focus on lighter forms of exercise that can be yoga, stretching, walking, Pilates, things like that, to support your body's need for rest and recovery.

Because you're bleeding, you're losing a lot of nutrients.

So that's kind of like the mindset behind why.

The next phase is your follicular phase, which is about day six to 14 of your cycle.

And on that phase, your estrogen is gradually starting to rise and increase, which leads to an increase of energy and endurance during that phase.

And this phase of your cycle is the best to really push and challenge yourself, including more strength training, more high-intensity workouts, because the body is more resilient and you just have a better recovery time overall, and it kind of optimizes your muscle building capacity, which is really awesome.

So if you really want to optimize hormones, that's the best time to push yourself as much as possible.

The next phase is your ovulatory phase, which is about days 15 to 17 for most of us.

This is all based on a 28-day cycle, by the way, which I'm kind of a 30-day cycle.

So if you're a little different, just push it a little forward or a little backward.

But when you're in an ovulatory phase, estrogen is at its highest peak, and that means you tend to be...

Because estrogen is kind of...

I like to call it the queen bee hormone.

So when estrogen is at its peak, you have better mood and more endurance for any exercise or physical activity that you do.

So at this phase, you know, to continue to do high-intensity interval training, strength training, you can even include things like, if you like any group spinning classes, Zumba, strength and conditioning, anything that's more high-impact, do it during this phase.

It really maximizes it.

And it's the shortest phase, ovulatory, it's a couple of days.

Last phase is going to be your luteal phase, which is about days 18 to 28.

And that's the phase where your estrogen is starting to decline, your progesterone is starting to rise.

I say at the beginning of this phase, I still like to include and recommend, for the most part, doing those high-intensity exercises, as far as like strength training, hit training, strength and conditioning, things like that.

But as you get to the end, your hormones are starting to decline, to get you back into your menstrual phase, where that's where your hormones are at an all-time low, as far as like a menstrual cycle perspective.

So beginning, you can kind of be a little more high-intensity, but as much as possible, try to taper that down as you get into the phase.

And if you're like in tune with your body, I know everyone's different on this, but once you get in tune with the body, you'll feel it.

And once you feel that kind of lower energy, lower mood, you can kind of be in tune with your body and have more lighter intensity exercise.

And that can be like Pilates, yoga, walking.

But something I always like to touch on is that everyone has different goals.

It's like I have some clients that are really big into weight lifting and into marathon, they're marathon runners and all these things.

And I think with us as females, what you can do is like, I still think this approach and this perspective is beneficial.

So it's like, hey, maybe you're not going to do exactly what I just lined out.

I was doing more extremes if you really are just, you know, wanting to optimize your hormones.

But if you're, you know, a heavy weight lifter or you're a marathon runner, you can still apply this because when you're in your menstrual phase, hey, like baby, don't do as long a distance.

Don't do as long a time.

Then when you're in your, you know, follicular or ovulatory phase, like push yourself to your limit, to your max, because your body is there to like hold you in that.

So for me, that's something I think it can still be applied no matter your goals, no matter your approach overall.

Just, yeah, just whatever your goals are, essentially.

So many thoughts about what you're saying.

It's like, first of all, I wish there was a little finger prick that you could do just like with your sugars that tells you the levels of your hormones every day, because it would be so interesting.

I'm such like a numbers person.

And then also, can you imagine being a man and not carrying what time of the month the marathon was scheduled on?

Because you have nothing to do with when they schedule these big things.

And it just doesn't matter because you're like rocking all month.

It's a 24-day cycle all the time.

Same thing.

And then also it just makes me look back on before I started really paying attention to my body and always somewhat paid attention.

But I've never until the last few years considered myself as much.

And I used to just go balls to the wall hardcore all the time.

Ciarra, you're going to work out today.

I don't care if you don't feel like it today.

You're doing it and just get over it.

Then really I was doing, I wasn't doing myself any good.

And now I have a daughter who's 13 and rides horses and does all of these things and she'll want to go out to the barn and then she'll start her cycle.

And she'll be like, Oh, I just stopped talking.

I'm like, don't go today.

Rest your body.

You know, she's like, really?

And I'm like, yes.

And she's like, but shouldn't we just like do it anyway?

No.

Mama did it wrong.

So, you know, we have to treat this.

We have to teach this new generation of girls growing up into be women to give their bodies the space to be in whatever phase it needs to be in and not feel like we just have to because the world is still moving.

And I think that was like the old school train of thought.

It's like, I mean, I'm the same way.

Like I was always told, like, push, push through it.

And it doesn't mean like, it's like, it's like one of those things like you can still push yourself if you need to.

But if you like have the opportunity to balance your schedule in a way that can align with your cycle, it's like, why not?

And also, like, let's say there's a lot of things going on with your career, but can you balance your exercise routine?

Can you balance other aspects to support yourself during that time?

I just think it's such an important aspect of being a woman that hasn't, I mean, I didn't learn it.

It's like, this is something that I've learned as I've gotten older.

So I think it's so important to teach like the next generation so that we can be more balanced and support our female physiology because it's so dynamic.

And I think it's just so, I just keep thinking like how powerful would it be if women were to be like recognizing this in our bodies and then to be like sharing this, to be communicating this with our, you know, with the men in our lives so that they can understand what is going on with our bodies and why we're doing these things and why, you know, halfway through our cycle, we decide that, okay, this is the time that we're going to go and we're going for a really long hike today and we're going to do all these different things.

And then later on, like, absolutely not.

And just kind of understanding this is how our bodies work.

This is our home hormones work.

And this is what our bodies are communicating with us.

I just think it's really cool to think how much more understanding there can be for us and for our daughters in the future.

Well, I think that this has all been absolutely fantastic.

This has been such great information.

And I hope that everyone that is listening to this is maybe giving yourself a little bit more grace and thinking through how can you make your workout work for you?

How can you make your diet work for you?

All these different things to support you and your hormones and your goals, whether that's healing your diastasis or, I don't know, learning how to squat something other than Chinese food.

So thank you so much.

I laughed about that to myself for a while when you said, I love Chinese food and sometimes it's pretty heavy.

I get two bags going, you know, it's really good, really well balanced, let me say.

If anyone ever wondered why we're partners, thank you guys so much for tuning in.

And we'll talk next week about, do you want to give a tiny little teaser, Dr.

Milo?

We're going to talk about diastasis and pediatrics because fun fact, babies might be born with diastasis.

So we're going to go into the whole pediatric development of the core next week.

Thank you so much for being here with us, Dr.

Michelle.

We really enjoyed having you.

We feel like we could have you on for 10 more episodes of all of your knowledge.

You're so sweet.

Thank you guys for having me.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for joining us on Birth, Baby!

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