Birth, Baby!

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Welcome, this is Birth, Baby.

Your hosts are Ciarra Morgan and Samantha Kelly.

Ciarra is a Birth Dula, Hypnobirthing Educator, and Pediatric Sleep Consultant.

Samantha is a Birth Dula, Childbirth Educator, and Lactation Counselor.

Join us as we guide you through your options for your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey.

All right, y'all, today, we are going to talk about something that we get asked about a lot.

And that is exactly why we decided to do this episode, was because people always want to know about cervical checks.

Should I get one?

Why is it being offered to me in pregnancy?

Do I really need one in labor?

So we're gonna break it down and talk about all of the yeas and nays of cervical exams.

So Samantha, you wanna start us off and kind of explain what the heck a cervical exam is?

Yeah, so for anybody who doesn't know what the cervix is, the cervix is what is right at the base of your uterus and it's what has to open and kind of move out of the way in order for your baby to pass through.

So when a provider is doing a cervical exam, what they're looking for is they're looking to see how, we call it a phased cervix, which is like how thick or how short it is because it starts out kind of thick and it gets shorter throughout pregnancy or throughout the end of pregnancy.

And then how dilated it is, which is how much it's opening.

It goes from like totally closed, zero, all the way to 10 is when we're pushing a baby out.

And then, yeah, yes, 10 centimeters, thank you.

And then they're also looking to see kind of what the position of the cervix is.

Sometimes it's more posterior.

Sometimes it's kind of starting to move more forward.

Typically during pregnancy, it's a little bit more posterior and then it'll kind of start to like shift forward as we're getting closer to delivery.

And so that's kind of what they are looking for when they're doing a cervical exam during pregnancy.

Cervical exams during labor, add a couple of extra things in the mix, but we're not gonna worry about that as much today.

So we sometimes, it depends on the provider on what they're going to say as far as kind of their guide on when to start doing cervical exams.

We have a doctor and OB in Austin who actually did a post about cervical exams in pregnancy.

And it kind of blew a bunch of people's minds because it's not what you would expect to hear a doctor say.

And basically she said, they're BS if it's done in pregnancy and we don't really need to do it.

Which is interesting because you also see it being often offered or I say offered, suggested around 36 or 37 weeks.

They start wanting to check your cervix.

Well, why would they want to do that?

So something I, you know, those of you that know me know that I really love my shirts, and I joke that I should get shirts made with all the stupid sayings that I say all the time.

And one of them that I say is a cervix isn't a crystal ball because just because you're zero centimeters today doesn't mean you couldn't have a baby in the next 12 hours.

I've literally seen that happen.

Zero centimeters to baby out, like not even in labor, zero centimeters to full-blown labor and baby out within 12 hours.

And that was a first-time mom.

I saw a third-time mom with a four-centimeter cervix, open four centimeters for three weeks before she went into active labor.

So it means basically nothing.

And if it means nothing, except there's one situation that I'll tell you that it could be beneficial in, but if it means nothing, then why are providers doing that?

I'm going to put you on the spot, Samantha.

I know we didn't talk about this beforehand, but what would you say are some reasons that, or even a reason, that a provider at 36 or 37 weeks wants to check your cervix?

So the biggest reason that a provider would want to check your cervix is that, so they could know what your cervix is at before they offer an induction.

So if you're going in for an induction, they do kind of want and need to know what your cervix is at, because then that helps them know what medications they might need to start with.

Sometimes depending on what kind of induction we're starting with, they might be starting it at night or in the morning.

So based on the scheduling, they would want if your cervix is 0 centimeters, 0 percent of phase, 000 all the way around, then they're going to start with a lot of gentle cervical ripening and starting that process of getting your cervix to soften in a phase before they start going at you with pitocin or whatever else.

Whereas if your cervix is already starting to soften in the phase and dilate, then they are probably going to start with more of like the contraction medication, the pitocin.

So that would be, I would say, the biggest reason that providers are looking at that.

So why would they need to be looking at your cervix at 36 weeks?

You're not being induced at 36 weeks.

It's kind of just so they can have an idea.

I hear what providers tell clients a lot is so that they can have an idea of what your cervix is doing.

They want to have a baseline.

We need to have a baseline for when you come in, because their thought is if you come in and you're 3cm dilated and you think that you're in labor, if you were 3cm dilated for weeks beforehand, then you're not actually in labor.

But there's also other ways.

It doesn't actually mean anything.

And the reason why is because if you come in and you're 3cm dilated in labor, then they're going to keep you for an hour and check you again.

And if you're 4cm dilated, then congratulations, you're in labor.

If you're 3cm dilated, congratulations, you're not probably in labor right now.

So it doesn't actually change anything with your care at that point.

And then another...

I think my blood pressure is raising right now.

I'm not even kidding.

I see you taking your deep breaths.

Yeah, I am.

I'm hypnobreathing right now.

I'm proud of you.

You're doing really great.

You're doing really great.

I'm annoyed right now currently.

Another reason...

So when I was pregnant with my son, I did not have a whole lot of childbirth education.

I didn't really know anything about cervical exams.

And so I started having a lot of Braxton Hicks type contractions when I was about 36 weeks.

And I was really crampy all the time.

And so I said something to my provider, and she was like, well, let's just check your cervix and see what's going on.

And so she checked my cervix at that point, and I was two centimeters dilated.

And then a couple of weeks later, I was three centimeters dilated, and I was having all of these contractions.

And so she wanted to know, are those contractions doing anything to your cervix?

And they were.

Did that change the course of my care?

No, it didn't.

You just said she wanted to know.

Y'all, this is for funsies.

All of this is for funsies unless you have an induction that needs to be scheduled.

So if you're getting checked at 36, 37, 38, 39 weeks, any of those, 40 weeks, any of it, and you have no reason to be induced, it is for fun.

It is the doctor curious.

Midwives generally don't do this, and not even all OBs do this, because it's not evidence-based, because the cervix isn't a crystal ball, because it doesn't matter if you're 2 centimeters or you're 4 centimeters or you're 0 centimeters.

And how does that make someone feel?

If you're 37 weeks and you're getting an exam, and they tell you you're 0 centimeters dilated, 0 percent effaced, hard, closed, thick, all the things, posterior maybe, your cervix is like very even, hard to reach, that's a defeating feeling, because you heard that you haven't had any progress.

But why should you have had any progress?

You're not in labor.

You're 37 weeks.

Most people don't give birth at 37 weeks.

So although there's no reason for you to have been anything more than you are, hearing that you're not can be defeating, even though it shouldn't be.

So it's like this mind game.

And hearing that you are is also, when I was told I was two centimeters at 36 weeks with my first baby, I panicked.

I called my husband from the car and I was like, Oh my God, like the doctor said that I could have the baby anytime now, because I'm already starting to dilate.

And it freaked me out.

Or it could get you excited.

And I made it all the way until I was induced at 40 weeks.

So for me, that was really not helpful for me to know that information.

And then you're walking around on eggshells thinking, Oh, the ball's going to drop, the ball's going to drop, I'm going to go into labor, I'm going to go into labor.

And then you don't.

And then you feel like you're overdue at 40 weeks.

When you're not overdue at 40 weeks, that's your due date.

And you still probably won't have a baby if you're a first time mom at 40 weeks, because the average mom goes into labor for the first time around 41 and 2 or 41 and 3.

So I'm going to say something a little bit controversial, and it's an opinion.

This is not medical advice.

I dare to say that a provider checking your cervix in pregnancy is a bit of grooming, because they are getting you used to having fingers in your vagina and having you agree to cervical exams.

That it's not really required.

It's not something that's going to make any difference in your care unless you're going to be induced.

And it also can do things like, you know, you're 38 weeks and you get an exam and they say you're zero, closed, hard, posterior, whatever.

And then they're like, you know, honestly, if you're still not even a faced at all, you know, we might just want to put an induction on the schedule, blah, blah, blah, which is wild to me because if you are all of those things and your cervix hasn't come along at all at 38 weeks, the worst thing you could do is induce because you have a lower chance of having a successful induction because your cervix clearly wasn't ready.

It might have three or four more weeks of work to do before it's ready to go into labor.

So, it's a negative mind game to the mom whose body was doing a perfectly fine job to then feel like, oh, well, my body's not doing anything, but it shouldn't have even been doing anything yet.

It's okay.

So, if you're someone that doesn't want these exams and you have a provider that's wanting to do them, you literally can just not take off her pants.

I had a client who had a doctor who loved to do these and started wanting to do them at 36 weeks.

And by the way, I'm not saying that all doctors are grooming you.

I don't even know that they realize they're doing that.

It is a thing that has just been being done for so long that we just continue to do it.

That's part of their training.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They've been trained to do it.

So, I don't think that in their brain, all of them are going, oh, I'm going to get her to do this now so that she's more compliant in labor to do with the things that I want to do.

I'm not saying that, but I think that overall it's a gross thing that has been done over time that is now just a routine examination that's unnecessary.

But so what she did was she went in in 30 at six weeks.

This was the hospital that was closest to her.

She knew that she wasn't going to have a doctor that was exactly in alignment with what she wanted to do, but she was fine with fighting.

She knew that that also put her into fight or flight and wasn't the most ideal, but that was her choice.

She knew that was informed decision making.

So she called me after her 36-week appointment, and she did have to do, or she did have to do, or she did agree to do the GBS test, which we'll talk about in another episode.

But the GBS test is like a swab that they put into the vagina and into the anus and then do testing to see what your group B strep levels are and if you have like a colonization of it.

So she agreed to that part, but then said, but I don't want any fingers in my vagina.

You can only do the swab.

And then at 37 weeks, he's like, all right, we need to do a cervical exam.

And she, he doesn't come in first, the nurse does, right?

And they're like, okay, go ahead and change this thing.

But she knew that nothing else, no other tests needed to be done.

So she just didn't change into the gown.

And the doctor came in and he was like, why don't you have your gown on?

And she goes, oh, I don't need to.

And he goes, well, we need to do a cervical test today.

And she goes, oh, I don't want to do it.

Maybe next week.

He's like, okay.

And then the next week she came in and she still didn't change.

And he's like, what are you doing?

We needed to do the test today.

And she was like, I just didn't really feel like I wanted to do it.

Maybe we'll do it next week.

He's like, we really need to do it next week.

She was like, okay.

Next week, she didn't change again, but she just kept doing this.

And he was like, you're messing with me.

Like finally, he kind of called her out on it after a few weeks of doing this.

And she was just like, but it doesn't matter.

I don't want to do it.

Like, I know you want to do it, but I don't want to do it.

So if you just don't change, they can't check you.

Right.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And I think the biggest question to ask when you are, you know, being presented with a with the possibility of having a cervical exam is, is this going to inform my medical care?

Like, is this going to help us make a decision one way or the other on some part of my of my care?

And in the vast majority of cases, the answer is no.

If you already, you know, if if you don't have a medical indication for an induction and you know you don't want an induction, then having a cervical exam at 38 weeks is not going to give you any beneficial information or your provider any beneficial information.

So you know, when you're thinking about like, you know, do I need a cervical exam?

Yes or no.

And you're kind of, you know, maybe walking through this hopefully with your provider, but you know, also with your with your own team, thinking through like, is this going to help me make a decision about some, you know, some part of my medical care?

If the answer is yes, then yeah, maybe that's something that we do want to consider.

If the answer is no, then there's really no, no reason to do it.

And you know, like Ciarra explained, it really can mess with your mess with your head quite a bit.

Mental space.

Yeah.

I also, you know, there's we talk about using your brains, you know, what are the benefits, risks, you know, what are the alternatives?

What is my intuition?

Tell me what if I did nothing and can I have space to decide?

And you can use that even in pregnancy, right?

When a cervical exam is being offered or suggested, ask those questions, what are the benefits here?

What are the risks here?

One of the risks is they could accidentally break your waters for you.

And you know, they could do a membrane sweep while they're in there that you didn't consent to, which could then cause crampiness and potentially set you over into labor before you were ready or whatever.

It doesn't usually happen, but it could.

But it can.

And then, you know, a membrane sweep, that's a gentle induction technique.

And that does happen.

And it happened to me.

It happened to it happened to many of our clients.

That's not OK to have someone do that without your consent.

And if fingers aren't in there, it's not going to happen.

So I'm going to give I love to always give the other side of things.

So why would you want to do it?

Well, if you know, in the absence of the induction, let's just say we know it's just for funsies, but I feel like I want to do it.

And the reason would be that maybe you're really nervous about getting cervical exams in labor, and you're like, I am not feeling good about like, it's something you're just having a lot of anxiety about.

If you get one done in pregnancy to kind of get the newness and the scariness away so that you can have already experienced it, that's okay.

That would be a really empowered choice to make to go, by the way, I'm sitting here saying all of this, and I was the one that signed up for all of the checks.

You guys know I'm type A, like I wanted to know.

I knew it meant nothing.

We still wanted to know what I was at because I like numbers.

I just wanted to know, but it was informed consent.

I knew that it meant nothing and I knew I had to wrap my brain around, no matter what it says, I could still be pregnant for three weeks, have a baby tomorrow.

But some people, it makes them feel better to have some of the newness wear off because there's always already going to be a lot of newness.

So maybe you just say yes to one or maybe you just say yes to two.

So I had a client that was planning a home birth VBAC.

She had vaginismus, so it made it very, very painful for her to have any sort of cervical examination.

And so her midwife understood that and she respected that.

And she was like, we won't do anything.

And we didn't do one when she showed up to the home birth.

And it took a long time before they finally did one.

And at the end of the situation, we didn't end up transferring.

She did get to 10 centimeters.

She did push for a while just like she did with her first one.

But we ended up transferring because we weren't having a baby.

And at the end of the day, the midwife pulled me aside and said, I really wish I had done a cervical exam on her in pregnancy.

Because I could feel in there that her anatomy, the way that her tailbone is and the way that her pelvic arch is, makes it nearly impossible for a baby's head to pass through there.

And you can't always tell that.

But she's like, I would have known if I had been able to, and we wouldn't have gone through all of this, of her trying again and her going through all of this and being exhausted going into another cesarean.

And I wish I could have done it before because she would have had less trauma.

But the flip side of that is you could feel something like that.

I had a client last week who we didn't find out until we were pushing, that she had a super tight pelvic arch.

And if we had known that before, other decisions might have been made that didn't need to be made out of fear that she wouldn't be able to do it.

And then we might not have even had a vaginal birth, which we did.

Even with tight pelvic arch, we learned information.

We changed position how we were pushing.

We all really worked together.

I joke that I birthed that baby because I was pushing legs in different angles and lifting her butt with my hands and doing all sorts of things.

But we made it through.

The information was helpful.

But if we had known it ahead of time, maybe we wouldn't have even tried to labor.

And she would have had an unnecessary surgery.

So they're both sides all the time.

Right.

Yeah, you just, I mean, you never know.

We always say, I think we say this like a million times to our clients throughout their journey with us.

But the cervix is not a crystal ball.

You know, we do not know from what your cervix is at right now when you're going to go into labor or, you know, when you're going to have your baby.

You know, you can go from 0 to 10 centimeters overnight or you can hang out at 4 centimeters for 3 weeks, even longer.

My grandmother talks about with her fourth baby, she was at 5 centimeters.

That's a lot, 5 centimeters for a month before she finally went into labor with him.

And, you know, that happens, especially as you have more babies.

But even with me, I was 3 centimeters dilated for weeks with my first baby, and I still ended up having an induction for him.

So we just don't we don't know the cervix is not a crystal ball.

It's not going to tell us when you're going, you know, when things are going to happen.

It's just going to give us a snapshot of what is happening right there in that moment.

So, you know, again, just thinking through, is this going to affect choices that we are making in regards to our medical care?

So if we're talking about inductions, then again, yeah, it's probably going to have some effect on, you know, the choices that you and your provider and your team are going to make.

If you are, you know, wanting to have a membrane sweep, then got to have a cervical exam because that's kind of part of that process.

And also your cervix has to be a little bit dilated to have that membrane sweep.

You know, and then during labor, there are different, you know, times and reasons that we may want to have a cervical exam.

It might give us some information.

You know, some things like during labor that we might see is like, maybe your cervix is dilating more on one side than the other.

And that tells us that we need to do some balancing or we need to change our position or, you know, we need different things like that.

And so maybe that that is really helpful in labor.

They're also with cervical exams, they're also checking baby's position so we can say, oh, hey, this baby's in there a little bit funky right now.

So let's see what we can do to kind of shake things up and move this kid around and do different stuff like that.

So that can be really helpful.

And then also sometimes you start feeling pushy before you're fully dilated, which is not super common, but we've had it happen recently.

And so if you're feeling pushy-

Yes, and when it does, if you just don't know, that is really tough.

You know, we want to say, go with your gut, go with your instincts, whatever.

But sometimes our instincts kick in preemptively, and that's, you wouldn't know, right?

Everyone's like, oh, your body knows what it's doing, your body, sure, it really does.

But there are those outlier situations.

Real quick, going back to the beginning of labor, if you were to get a sort of like, when you show up, they're going to want to check your cervix, whether it's at a birth center, at a hospital, sometimes home birth midwives don't do this so much.

They're like, eh, well, we're fine.

But, you know, it can happen to where even a home birth midwife wants to check your cervix when they arrive.

And we have even one person right now with us who's due next month.

It's like, I don't want any cervix, not even when I show up.

When I talked to her about the pros and cons of that, because while I understand, I also don't think it's a terrible thing in that case to have a baseline, because if she shows up at three centimeters, and even if they'll admit her at three centimeters, and then eight hours later, she gets another check and we're three centimeters, that's information.

That tells us that there might be some sort of augmentation that might need to be done.

If she's like, I want to have an unmedicated birth, pain-wise, pain medication-wise, she's gonna get tired eventually.

And if she's not gone any centimeters or any effacement change or any station change, all of these things, within eight hours, those waves might not be strong enough that she's having.

And yes, she could go on for days like that.

Technically, her body will probably eventually do it.

But is she gonna get too tired to meet her goal of an unmedicated birth?

Is her baby going to get too tired from having all of these contractions for days and days and days?

So we may save a vaginal birth or even maybe an unmedicated birth by adding a little bit of Pitocin or doing other things.

Starting to breath, yes, exactly.

Breast pump, doing things that are naturally going to make those contractions stronger.

So there are pros and cons, and you can not know.

You can just say, I don't want to know the number.

I want my doula and my midwife or my doula and my doctor or nurse to know so that they can help guide me on next steps if there is something that needs to be done, but I know what I'll get in my own head.

I don't wanna.

And that's totally, totally fine.

I think that's a great option.

Maybe your partner wants to know.

But that's fine too.

Yeah, yeah.

That's hard.

Like a lot of moms are stuck at some number as they got to a certain number with their first.

And they're like, after I'm six centimeters, then I'll feel better.

So if you tell them they're four, they're gonna be like, oh my God, I knew I couldn't do it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It's a lot of head game going into all of that.

But again, I think it all leads back to, is this going to inform or is this going to just be something that happens?

If it's not going to inform, you don't need it.

Truly, you don't need it.

And it is always within your right to decline a cervical exam.

I think that's something that a lot of people don't know, is they're like, oh, well, my provider checks cervixes every two hours, so that's just when I'm gonna have a cervical exam.

Or my provider does this at 36, 37, 38, 39 weeks.

All of that is, that's just kind of part of the package.

You are in charge of your body.

You have the right to say yes or no to those things, and you have the right to withdraw that consent at any point.

We have heard stories of people having a cervical exam, and they're really not vibing with it, not feeling comfortable, and so they ask someone to stop, and that person, that provider might say, oh, I'm almost done, and keep going.

That's not okay.

That is not okay.

You have the right to say no, and they need to stop right then and there.

So what are some of the cons to having cervical exams in labor?

So we talked about some of the pros.

It can help us with, know about position, know how you're progressing, kind of get that beast line, and give us some really helpful information.

So why wouldn't I want them every two hours in labor?

So one would be it can get into your head if you're not progressing at the rate that you think that you should be.

There used to be this, or not used to be, it really kind of still is, even though it's not evidence-based anymore.

There used to be something called the Friedman's Curve that providers used to kind of show how they thought that labor should progress.

And it was basically like, you needed to dilate one centimeter per hour starting at, I think, at the point that it first came out, it was starting at five centimeters.

That was when they felt like active labor started.

So from five to 10, that should be a five-hour period.

And if you weren't progressing at that rate, then you were going to need additional help or medication or whatever.

We've since learned that, it might surprise you, people are different.

Everybody progresses differently.

People labor differently.

And also, a lot of those tests and things that they used to develop that curve were based on pretty racially motivated things.

And so it wasn't a clear picture.

Even if not racially motivated, they're only testing white women.

Even if that wasn't the intent behind it, it doesn't matter because it was not research based on all types of people, which is wild to me, that you're just gonna like, oh, everybody's the same.

Let's do this small demographic of people, and sure, everyone should fit into that box.

Right, yeah.

So it was not a good study, and it was not a good curve.

So we've kind of since learned like, oh, hey, that's not actually how it works.

Active labor is actually starting closer to six centimeters.

Everybody's gonna progress a little bit differently.

And we have some different guidelines based on on what we've learned over the last century, almost since Friedman's Curve was first developed.

But that was how a lot of people were trained.

That's how a lot of providers were trained, and a lot of their teachers were trained.

And so it's still very much ingrained kind of in our system.

And though we're slowly starting to move away from it, they always say that it takes like 20 years for from discovery to implementation of new research in the medical field.

And I would say it's probably even longer than that in maternal medical field.

So it takes a while for those things to go away.

So we're finally starting to see that stuff go away, but it is still, if not prevalent, then I guess just it's out there.

It's still common.

I think it's similar to the routine vaginal exams, the routine cervical checks.

I think it's similar to that wherein even if somebody isn't actively thinking about it, it's kind of how they learned and they're still practicing that way, whether they realize it or not.

And it wasn't only a demographic of race that was considered, it was like a certain body type of people, right?

So, you know, how much did they exercise or not exercise or like, what do they do for work?

Like all of these things, right?

If you sit at a desk all day, I don't care how fit you are, if you sit at a desk all day versus you're somebody who's crawling around on the floor with your kids, your body is gonna be completely different and be able to dilate at a different pace.

Also, and I don't know specifically for that one, but first time parents versus somebody who's already had a child, you're gonna dilate completely differently.

Yeah, I mean, it's like the service is like, you know what to do, we'll just get it on out of the way usually.

Whereas with the first one, we got some work to do friends.

Yeah.

Can you imagine if we put them in a box and we only like, you had to dilate a centimeter an hour past five centimeters, that rarely happens.

Rarely happens.

Unless you're a second time mom and then those babies do whatever they want to do, they're gonna come flying out.

First babies, there's just almost no way.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah, it's really hard to just generalize anything with Birth.

Everybody is different.

Everybody's body is different.

And then the other big con when we're talking about cervical exams specifically in labor is the risk of infection.

So with every cervical exam, what they're doing is, right, they're putting their fingers into your vagina.

And so they are pushing bacteria that is at the front of your vagina up towards your cervix.

So especially if your water is released or baby is getting really low, we're pushing that bacteria up towards baby, and we are increasing the risk of infection.

And so I think the number is five.

Five plus cervical exams throughout the course of your labor is going to increase your chance of infection by like 50%.

It's a big jump.

And so when we're talking about having a cervical exam every two hours in labor, if your labor is not following that exact Friedman's curve, you are putting yourself at a significant risk of infection at that, or really your body is being put at a significant risk of infection with all of those cervical checks.

Yeah, and just like prenatally, there's a chance that it could accidentally break your bag of waters.

That can potentially happen in labor as well.

Or not.

Or not.

We've had that happen, y'all.

We say that, and it's like, no hate to any sort of provider, but not everybody's perfect.

Not all doctors are in it for the right reasons or have the right reasons of doing things or are super honest, and not all midwives either.

Some people think that because a midwife is a midwife, that doulas just inherently trust everything that they're saying, and clients or patients should just, oh, well, they for sure have my best interest in mind.

They're midwives.

It's not always true.

And so, you should question everyone and everything.

And just because your doulas think something is, I was just gonna say, just because your doulas think something is good does not mean that you need to.

A good doula is gonna say, you do what you want.

This is not my birth.

I'll give you the information, but you need to make the choices.

Right, everybody's coming at this with their own bias.

So in the long run, you steer the ship, you get to decide what makes the most sense for you.

Our job is to present you with the information and make sure you have the tools to ask your providers, whether that's a doctor or a midwife or whoever, that you know how to ask the questions that are gonna get you the answers that you are searching for.

And so that's truly why we present this information.

You know, we love midwives, we love OBs, we want to work well with everyone.

And so I hope it doesn't sound like we're, you know, out here like laying down the law, saying don't let anybody stick their fingers in your vagina, because that's not it.

Everyone gets to make their own decisions.

Yeah, totally.

We both did.

This is coming from people who both did.

So.

Yeah.

And I think that's important to remember too.

If you want a cervical exam at some point during birth, during pregnancy or labor, and you know the risks and the benefits of doing that, go for it.

Just it's your decision.

It is your decision, not your doctor's, not your doula's, not your mom's, not your partner's, your decision.

And it's an individual choice based on your specific situation, because there are times when I have said, I think it might be a really good idea for you to get one prenatally and here's why.

And it's because of all of the anxiety that they have associated with having a cervical exam.

And, you know, you can practice your breathing techniques and your relaxation techniques through them doing that without the additional sensations of labor on top of it.

So I hope that this episode was kind of eyeopening to you on, or you learned at least something about cervical exams, why and why they may not be needed.

And at the end of the day, as we always say, it's all you, it's on you, it's your choice.

And we will talk to you next week.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining us on Birth, Baby!

Thanks again to Longing for Orpheus for our music.

You can look him up on Spotify.

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See you next week.