Birth, Baby!

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Before we dive in, we wanna give a content warning for this episode.

We have a brief discussion around maternal mortality, miscarriage and some postpartum complications.

So if you're not in a place that you would like to listen to that right now, then at the about 36 minute part, you can skip forward to the 45 minute part and that will help you bypass that conversation.

Welcome, this is Birth, Baby.

Your hosts are Ciarra Morgan and Samantha Kelly.

Ciarra is a birth doula, hypnobirthing educator, and pediatric sleep consultant.

Samantha is a birth doula, childbirth educator, and lactation counselor.

Join us as we guide you through your options for your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey.

Today, we're here with Theresa Swan.

Theresa is a peristeam hydrotherapist and peristeam facilitator through the Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute.

During this intensive training, she learned how to use steam therapy with over 350 pelvic health situations.

That's amazing.

Her mission is to see a revival of every household using steaming to help support and rebalance their bodies.

And she's here today to talk with us about using it in pregnancy and postpartum.

Thank you so much for being here today, Theresa.

Thanks, Ciarra, I'm so glad to be here.

Okay, so I'm going to start us off by saying, I don't know that much about steaming.

Ciarra is like a little steaming evangelist over there.

So she's always telling me about it, but I don't know hardly anything about it.

I've been called worse.

It's true.

It's true.

I love it.

And I'll be honest and say I'm a little bit of a skeptic.

So I'm really interested to kind of hear a little bit about it from you and just learn from you what that can look like.

I mean, I don't know, all that good stuff.

So tell me, what is vaginal steaming?

Well, steaming is, I love it because it's actually a practice that has been used for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

And we found records of it on 70 different countries, on all continents.

So yeah, it's really interesting because during my training at the Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute, we have like these group forums where we can chat with people who are taking the courses from all over the world.

And you'll hear stories of people saying, you know, that when they brought it up to their family, what certifications they're doing and what trainings they're doing, their grandmothers will say, we used to do that.

And it just gives me chills because it's like, there's a huge reclamation of using this very simple practice for many, many things.

And, you know, now with sort of our modern perspective, we can really tailor the practice to the individual.

It's funny that you say that the grandmothers say like, oh, I've done that, or we used to do that because I had the exact opposite experience.

So I have to tell you now, because it was too funny.

So my dad is like all about controversy.

If it's controversial, he's like, yeah, I want to know about it.

Let's talk about it.

And so my dad, I told him one day, I was like, you're going to get a kick out of this dad, because we had yours scheduled for a different day.

And there was another steamer we're also chatting with about a different aspect of it.

And then there was somebody that we were talking to about, so I'm not going to give it away because we haven't posted it yet, but something about penises.

And I told my dad, I was like, it's really funny because I'm just talking about vaginas and penises all day today.

And apparently he told my grandmother.

So my Grammy came over to bring my kids their Christmas presents.

And she goes, the moment my kids walked away, she's like, I really got to know about this.

What are you talking about vaginal steaming?

What's vaginal steaming?

I love it.

I had a big conversation with her.

She was like, really?

You know, she had never heard of this.

However, I do have very young grandparents.

So I love that you're having other people have a different experience, which is what I would hope it would be.

I feel like I'm having to educate everyone at this point.

Yes.

And so, yeah, the practice was kind of lost when women were banned from practicing medicine.

So, yeah, it was repressed for a while, but there's some countries that never stopped using it, like Korea, Suriname, Haiti, Japan, and there's several other sort of small pockets where it's never been stopped.

But yeah, there's definitely a revival going on.

And what I'm finding when I tell people, yes, there's sometimes some hesitation and some surprise and some skepticism, which I think is really healthy.

But then when you start talking about it more in depth, it actually seems to click intuitively with most people and they're actually like, wait a second, this makes a lot of sense.

So I find that really interesting that I expected more skepticism, but yeah, generally I find people will eventually realize, like, yeah, actually this makes total sense.

It kind of goes along with traditional Chinese medicine in that we want to keep our womb warm, we want to keep circulation to the area.

Yeah, so yeah, if you want to find out a little bit more about what results people have gotten, which I love exploring, because it's just so encouraging, you can check out the Pelvic STEAM Testimonial Database, and that's on the Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute website.

Yeah, we can link those in the show notes too.

Yes, yes.

And then, so moving forward, there's a documentary coming out, hopefully by the end of this year, called STEAM, and it's being filmed in four different countries.

The Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute received a couple million dollars in funding to put this on, to produce it.

And so, yeah, it's being directed by Kelly Garza.

And so, yeah, I'm really excited because I'm hoping that this will bring this awareness.

I really, like I said in that bio you read, I really do strongly feel that this needs to be in every household and this needs to be part of the care that we receive in various situations, like a piece of the pie.

So interesting.

If you're not watching our YouTube stream, you probably didn't see both Ciarra and I just like perk up and get all excited about a documentary.

We love a good documentary.

So that is true.

That's exciting.

I can't wait to watch that.

How cool.

Yeah, and so, yeah, just knowing that this, it's very simple.

Like everyone can do it in their own home.

It's not like you have to go to some fancy spa or even have a fancy sauna.

Like you can do it at home.

Yeah, so that's-

So how did you get introduced to this?

Well, it was about six years ago for me and I actually went to a massage appointment.

And before my massage, she offered me a steam and I had never heard of it.

And I'm like, you know, sure.

I'm pretty open person.

I'm kind of dying right now.

I'm sorry.

We have a friend who's a doula that I'm going to call her out.

I'm just going to say her name.

I don't even care.

Her name is Peggy.

And she thinks all of this is very funny.

And I introduced her to vaginal steaming, told her about it.

Like she's ever tried it.

I don't think so.

But I told her about it.

And she's like, Ciarra, what are you talking about?

I feel like, you know, one of those clothes steamers, you're just going to come out like, and you're going to put it in front of me.

Like, what are you talking about?

And so now I'm just picturing someone like her going into a massage and them offering her a steam and her being like, oh, thanks.

Like she'd be so freaked out.

But I love that you were just open to it.

You're like, sure, steam my vagina.

Let's see what that's like.

Yes, yes.

And for people who think it's like totally out there, I say to them, you know, have you ever steamed your face?

You know, when you were sick and what happened?

And people kind of go, oh, right.

I've steamed my face and it totally cleared my sinuses.

That's very interesting.

It moisturized everything.

Very interesting.

So, yeah, it is something that initially does seem kind of shocking and strange.

And then you're like, wait, this is actually totally normal.

So, yeah, so I got on the steam box and it was like, beautifully relaxing.

You know, I had my own space, smelled the herbs.

It was gorgeous.

But I didn't understand why I was there and why I was doing this.

I had no idea.

She didn't explain it to me.

We went on to the massage and I went home to Google because I'm going, what just happened?

It was an opportunity for her.

It's kind of a bummer that she didn't have any information or even like a handout maybe that she could have given you to say like, here's why.

Yes, totally.

And I think part of it is that, you know, she wasn't actually a trained practitioner.

So she might not have known too much in depth about it.

I don't know.

But anyways, I loved the feeling.

And so I was curious, you know, it was deeply relaxing.

And so, yeah, so I ended up Googling and seeing some different, you know, benefits.

And so I contacted a practitioner.

She sent me some herbs and I tried it on my own.

And I, like I said, I didn't have any fancy sauna box or anything like that.

I had it on the ground, a pot on the ground with a towel wrapped around it.

And I was squatting over this pot, or not squatting, sorry, like kneeling.

And yeah, I found, you know, like it wasn't the most comfortable, but I was able to do it, you know, for a short seam of 10 minutes.

Yeah, and so I think I did it like three to four times that month.

And then I didn't have cramps that period.

And I'm like, Samantha, you hear her?

Every time Samantha has any female complaint, I just text her back and I'm like, have you tried vaginal steaming yet?

She does every time.

Yeah.

How does she call me an evangelist?

Yeah, it's so true.

And now I understand.

See, for me, I like to understand intellectually, like what?

So now I understand we're bringing steam, brings circulation to the womb and stagnant old, clotted blood clears out.

So we don't realize like how many of us are walking around with stagnation.

So some signs of stagnation are cramps, any other blood color other than red.

Yeah, sore breasts.

A lot of the symptoms we get actually are related to stagnation.

So cramps are actually like a mini contraction where your uterus is working to push out the old material.

So once that clears out, just like steaming your face, your womb no longer needs to contract.

It's as simple as that when it comes to cramps.

And so, yeah, it worked really fast for me.

I also used to get painful labial cysts and that took a little bit longer.

I no longer get those.

They went away.

They wouldn't go away and they were painful.

Yeah, and so, yeah, that also cleared for me.

And so, yeah, so I'm going, okay, this is major.

I need to take these, I need to share this with other people.

So I started the training at the Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute.

I did the facilitator training first, which is sort of a basic training.

And then I was so amazed at everything I was learning that I went on to take the Peristeam Hydrotherapist training.

So yeah, we learned specifically how to create steam plans in a variety of situations, including cysts, infections, endometriosis, fertility optimization, which is a huge subject, which I'm hoping to come back and talk to you guys about.

Another time, because the results that we're getting with unexplained infertility are mind blowing and it's non-invasive, it's relaxing and it's cheap.

So yeah, so this is a huge, like I just, my heart goes out to people who are dealing with that and I want to help.

Yeah, things like menstrual pain, irregularity, so we can actually work with different herbs and different steam plans to change the length of your cycle.

Pain during sex is another one, vaginal dryness, prolapse, fibroids.

So we learn about all of these different conditions and how to work with steam plans for them.

So I've heard Peristeam Hydrotherapy be described as a new standard of care.

Often because we get a greater outcome and there's much less of an invasive intervention going on.

So I love that framework.

I'm curious, I don't know what you did before.

So when you started becoming a Peristeam Hydrotherapist, were you already in the realm of women's health or anything or was this a new passion?

Yeah, it was a bit of both because, you know, I was in women's circles for 22 years.

I was a women's counselor.

I wrote my master's thesis on a feminist approach to therapy.

So I worked as a trauma counselor, but mostly with women.

And so I was very, always have been very much passionate about, yeah, helping women.

And like, I'm also an artist, and I do a lot of sculptures that are sort of inspired by ancient sculptures too.

So steaming just fits right into who I am.

And I also just like love that it is this ancient practice.

It's not some new age thing.

It's not some trend.

It's been used for probably thousands of years.

It's so sad when these things don't get passed down.

It's so sad that we're having to go and reteach young women about their own bodies when these things should never have stopped being educated about and passed down.

It's wild.

Yes.

And we're seeing a similar revival with, you know, the interest in herbs and the interest in all of these sort of modalities that, again, were repressed.

Not to get into it too much, but I remember taking women's studies courses in university and learning about how women for a period of about 300 years in Europe were killed if they used herbs, if they attended births.

So they really did try to repress this stuff, you know, and they didn't, because here we are.

So I love that.

I love the revolutionary vibe of it.

Like right up Samantha's alley right there.

You're feeling like pitchforks with her.

I was just thinking, and we persisted.

We have that tendency.

That's awesome.

So yeah, I mean, it's so interesting that it has this like historical context.

I don't think I ever, I'd never heard that before.

I kind of thought it was more of a new age thing.

I think my first exposure to vaginal steaming was an episode of The Kardashians when one of them, I forget which one, was like trying to get pregnant and she did like yoni steaming.

And I thought it was, I watched it and I was like, that just feels like the most Kardashian thing.

And that was the first and last time I heard about it for many years.

But it was, I did not know that.

I know it's, was it Courtney?

I think that just had a baby.

So I guess it worked.

She ended up being able to have a baby, however old she is, 40 something.

So that was my exposure.

So it did feel very new agey to me.

So, you know, with that, can you do, like what does vaginal steaming look like in like the pregnancy and postpartum and a whole like perinatal period?

What is that?

What is that process?

So this is actually postpartum is the most common use of steaming worldwide.

Yeah.

And there's some really exciting things happening.

So first I want to say like it's important to know that it's not safe to steam during pregnancy unless you're working with a certified peristeam hydrotherapist.

So that's the advanced steam practitioner.

Some benefits of steaming for labor preparation can be increasing moisturization of the body so that the baby can more easily move down and out.

It can also help get things moving if someone is facing due date pressure.

So I'm sort of starting with labor preparation steaming, and then I'll move on to postpartum.

There's a lot.

Yeah, it increases blood circulation to the uterus, so that can help it contract when the time comes.

And as we talked about a little bit, circulation is the opposite of stagnation, and pregnancy naturally creates stagnation in the body, where we see swelling.

Sometimes we have things like shooting pain, brain fog.

Those are all symptoms of stagnation in the body when you look at it through this traditional Chinese medicine lens.

So steaming for labor prep also creates relaxation of the cervix and the surrounding muscles, so that all assists in having an easeful birth.

Increased relaxation and softening allows the cervix to open, similar to the urethra and the anus, right?

So we want to see things relax and open when we're ready to use them.

Sometimes we see a release of ligament tension, and yeah, as Peristeam Hydrotherapists, we also work, we're able to recommend lifestyle changes, oral herbs and food therapy to complement these goals.

Many find steaming also provides pain relief and a reduction of breast soreness and general achiness in the last weeks of pregnancy when things get really uncomfortable.

It's important to be aware that each person will see differences in how steaming affects their labor and postpartum.

I'm going to get into a couple of case studies as well.

Yeah, you just said something that kind of resonated with me, and I'm a hypnobirthing educator.

And so we teach a lot about how breathwork is so important because you need to get blood and oxygen into your blood so that it can help your uterus be more oxygenated and therefore you feel less pain because you're not cramping like you would in the same way.

So I talk a lot about that, but you saying that this also increases circulation, exactly bringing more blood and oxygen to the uterus makes so much sense.

So it's funny, I learn stuff and then I'm like, we have to do it.

So now Samantha, we're just going to have to order a bunch of vaginal steaming boxes and we're going to make them.

She's like, great, here we go.

Ciarra's going to have something else that we have to do.

But it makes, that makes so much sense.

Right.

And yeah.

So like as we start to talk about it, it usually clicks for people and they go, oh yes, of course, of course.

It's like a duh moment.

And you know, it's just that moment of skepticism and hesitation or surprise.

Like it's, it's natural because we've been, you know, working with largely one modality culturally, you know.

And so I like to have like a more integrative approach where we can include everything that's going to help somebody.

So I'm really hoping to integrate steaming with the mainstream culture.

I have, you know, a couple doctors referring to me now.

So it's really exciting that, you know, this is starting to pick up as a credible modality.

So yeah, studies show blood pressure and heart rate go down in women who steam and people who steam.

Those interested in this can check out the fourth trimester vaginal steam study by the Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute.

You're going to have to send me all these links because people like Samantha are going to want to go read them.

Yes, absolutely.

And there's been quite a few studies done actually, but a lot of them are in Korean.

So yeah, and there has actually been case studies in which steaming appeared to help preeclampsia.

Yeah, like one in particular where one woman, they were about to transfer her to emergency C-section, and she said, you know, no, I'm going to steam and see if this helps.

And several steam sessions she did, and her blood pressure returned to normal, and they released her.

So it's just really interesting, like things that I wouldn't have even thought of, you know, we're seeing results.

So steaming has also helped in the case of GBS, which is group beta strepococcus.

Often with infections, we actually see them being pulled out of the body quite easily.

You know, there's several case studies of people being on like antibiotics for BV, bacterial vaginosis for years.

And in a matter of days or weeks, they're able to clear it with steaming.

So yeah, bacterial vaginosis, yeast infections, HPV, we're seeing some really cool results.

Yeah.

And then moving on to postpartum, the benefits are often immense.

Steaming appears to help clear lochia faster.

Infection can happen in the lochia, which is common to happen around day eight postpartum or later.

So just like steaming for infections like BV or yeast infections, we often see a lochia infection clear quite quickly, like in a couple of days.

So this can help avoid sepsis and reduce postpartum contractions and cramping.

Because again, what cramping is, is our womb, our uterus muscle, trying to contract to expel material that's inside.

So if we help it expel it by the use of steam, it doesn't have to do that as much.

Yes, yes.

And I'm going to ask you, because we have people listening that are all different levels of educated about these sort of things.

And lochia, although it should be a word that we use, it isn't always.

So will you explain that to people what that means when you're saying lochia?

Yeah.

So after birth, we have some matter inside of the womb that needs to expel.

So it often looks like blood.

It can be different colors, which could indicate an infection sometimes.

But yeah, so some people, you know, find that they have blood and discharge coming out after birth for even weeks.

That's another thing with steaming is we can clear the lochia quite quickly.

So that way it's out of the uterus and not just sitting around being stagnant to create an infection.

I hope that was a good explanation.

I don't know if you want to add anything to that.

No, I think that's great because we always just say like, you know, and we should be using that word, but we'll just tell people you're going to bleed.

You know, you'll have more bleeding if so and so less bleeding if so and so.

And really, if you're going to have lochia, you know, it's not it's not just blood, but that is the word that that everyone kind of uses just as a default.

OK, yeah, yeah.

So postpartum, we don't begin steaming until we see that uterine artery close.

So it's different than when we have our period because our uterine artery is open during the period.

But postpartum, the uterine artery will close shortly afterwards.

And so it's actually not blood coming from our heart in the way that a menstrual period is.

So, yeah, it's all this material in our uterus.

So what are you saying about when you would start steaming postpartum?

You're saying you wouldn't do it right away?

Generally, we can start steaming within 24 to 48 hours.

You do steaming postpartum isn't something you want to just do willy nilly.

You do want to make sure you're working with a certified peristeam hydrotherapist because there is certain, you know, individualized things.

We want to keep an eye on how things are going.

And we do want to make sure that uterine artery is fully closed.

So, yeah, but you generally it's 24 to 48 hours after birth.

We want to start steaming as soon as possible because there's so many other benefits.

For example, a reduction in bladder incontinence and skin swelling.

Steaming also helps seems to help the uterus go back into position sooner.

So in the fourth trimester steam study, the steam group had their uterus shrink back down to normal size faster than the control group who didn't steam.

Often we see the vaginal opening and canal close faster as well.

And then we also often see steaming help with wounds scarring sutures, right?

So there's lots of different reasons why we want to get in there and steam as soon as we can.

It often works so well steaming with sutures and wounds that in some cases where we have midwives who are also peristeam hydrotherapists, they may not even suture a wound that they normally would if they know that client is going to be doing her postpartum steam plan.

So things heal up really quite quickly generally.

So steam helps keep the area clean and can help generate tissue repair.

And if you do need sutures, it often helps the healing process without the itching, the pulling, the pain a lot of women experience.

The women in the non-stream steam group had discomfort up to six weeks, including itchiness, burning, yellowness.

And after the second steam session in the steam group, they had no more discomfort.

So that's two days.

Do you want to be in discomfort for six weeks or two days?

Wow.

So that's a really beautiful benefit.

It makes a lot of sense for sutures.

I'm thinking of people who have had significant tearing and those apesiotomies and different things like that, that it's a fairly significant amount of trauma that's happening there.

And we don't really have like anything other than like throw some witch hazel on it and maybe some of that like dermaplast spray and good luck.

But it makes a lot of sense to bring more circulation to that specific area to help with the healing.

I can see how that would be beneficial.

It's kind of similar, I guess, like to a sitz bath, but less messy, maybe.

Also, the skin, I mean, everything not being as swollen is going to help those sutures not feel so tight and pulley and all of that.

So if you had, you know, if the steaming is bringing some of that swelling down, then of course we would be healing faster.

Of course, things would be coming together more quickly instead of just kind of bulging at the seams of the, sorry to say that in that way, but of the suture.

You know, it makes it pull so much.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Yes.

And we do want to really keep things clean.

Sits baths are great.

I, for my opinion, would say steam is a lot more effective.

But sits baths are awesome too, and we do recommend them.

So if we can get the discomfort gone, that is huge.

And another piece, the steam group did not steam for labour preparation or during labour because if they had, they may not have torn at all and needed the sutures.

So we'll get into that when we start talking about.

But so that's another really exciting piece is that we're seeing a huge reduction in birth injuries in terms of tearing.

Like, it's really wonderful.

So yeah, sometimes women have scar tissue, whether that's from giving birth or from surgeries or from trauma.

And so steaming will often soften old scar tissue.

Some people find their scar tissue resolves completely, and there have even been case studies of people having their scar tissue come out.

Of course, if we were able to do steam sessions soon after the tearing, then they're faster to heal.

But I've worked with women who've had scar tissue for 40 years and they're seeing it soften.

So it's, yeah, it's amazing.

But yes, that's another reason why we want to get in after postpartum and steam as soon as possible.

I mean, hey, if it's been a few months or even a year, that's OK.

It's still beneficial to do to work with a postpartum steam plan.

But the sooner the better.

We've seen steaming assist with postpartum hemorrhoids time and time again, which is another huge form of discomfort for people.

So if we can get you more comfortable, it's going to bring down your stress levels and you're going to be able to rest better and take care of yourself, connect with your baby and all of these good things.

More useful bowel movements.

So you do need to position yourself a little bit different on the sonnet in order to hit for the steam to hit the anus.

Lifting the feet up on like a little footstool or some textbooks or something will help.

Yeah.

So you touched on it for a second there, and I'm really I'm curious to hear about it.

Do people use vaginal steaming in labor?

And I think you mentioned that it might help prevent tearing.

How does it do that?

And what does that look like?

Yeah, like how often are they doing that labor?

Like once or?

Well, I have a whole bunch on that.

But yes, with labor, basically, and I will get into that more in a second because postpartum, there's still more.

There's a lot of benefits I'd love to tell you about.

But yeah, with labor, generally, we would start to meet at like week 36 and do an in-depth intake, and then we would go forward from there.

But yes, steaming during labor, yes, yes, yes, it should be at every birth, in my opinion, because the reduction in tearing alone that we're seeing is amazing, but I do want to tell you a little bit more about some of the more maybe intense benefits of steaming postpartum.

But first, I just want to say it can also help with the first elimination of the bladder after giving birth.

I think a lot of women, you know, they need to see that elimination before they're allowed to leave.

So if someone's having trouble eliminating the bladder, they can try a steam.

We also see a reduction in water retention in the body.

And many people have found that prolapse can fully reverse with steaming if that ends up occurring after birth.

So that's huge as well.

But what I mentioned, the more sort of serious aspects is I did want to touch on the causes of maternal mortality and how steam might interact with that.

So yeah, it's a sensitive subject, but I think it is important to be aware of.

So the three leading causes of maternal mortality worldwide, number one, a study by the World Health Organization showed that 27% of maternal deaths are caused by hemorrhage.

So hemorrhaging happens most commonly when there's retained matter in the uterus.

So this can happen when the placenta doesn't release, which steaming has helped people immediately with.

So if someone's having that placenta be retained, get them on the steam sauna.

And a lot of times it will just right away come out.

Sam, can you just see us at a hospital being like, Hey, Dr.

So-and-so, actually, wait, hold on.

We're going to steam.

I wish that would be possible, but at a home birth and a birth center, this is probably will be very welcome.

Maybe that's where like the clothing steamer comes in handy.

We just like roll in with it and like, we're just going to pop in here.

Sorry, hold on.

I'm not going to tell Peggy that we mentioned her on this podcast and she takes forever to listen to our podcast.

So once this comes out, we'll see how many months it takes for her to be like, Ciarra, sometime this summer, we'll hear from her.

Yeah, no.

And steaming during labor is actually in 30 different hospitals in Europe now.

So I would love to see it get into hospitals, absolutely every single birth, because like we're saying here, if we have a risk of hemorrhage, let's get in there and do this very simple thing.

They use, I believe, in the hospitals in Europe, they use kettles and sometimes they have steam chairs or sometimes they'll use like the commode without the pan in the middle.

So it is actually conducive to set up at a hospital.

You can get a little creative with it, but it's being done.

And I really want to see it be done in every single hospital and every single home birth.

But yeah, so when the placenta doesn't release, also with a partially retained placenta, the uterine arteries open, it's kind of like a power washer where your uterine arteries are bleeding profusely to try and get this material out of the uterus because it can cause infection to have this retained placenta or partially retained placenta.

So if we can get that out, that body isn't necessarily going to be doing that.

It's often the case with miscarriage as well.

It's the same issue, you know.

Steaming has cleared up matter that's been stuck inside women for weeks or even months in some cases.

So yeah, it's a little bit hard to think about, but that's happening very commonly for people, you know, even after a DNC procedure, weeks later they try steaming and out comes the sack.

And it's like, wow, you know.

So moving on to the second cause of maternal death, 22% of maternal deaths are caused by eclampsia.

In the fourth trimester vaginal steam study, we saw 100% of the steam group's blood pressure go down after steaming.

In the control group, the non-steam group, all of their blood pressure went up over time.

So we're not exactly sure why this happens, but steaming is deeply physiologically relaxing.

So I have a theory from my trauma therapist days that because our vagus nerve innervates the entire pelvic region and the cervix, it activates the parasympathetic nervous system during the steam session.

And that could bring the blood pressure down.

But we're just not sure why that happens, why we're going to put you on the spot.

I'm going to put you on the spot.

You might not know the answer.

That's totally fine because it's in that.

I'm sure it's in that study.

But you said that all of the people that were steaming, their blood pressure came down.

Do we know how long it stays down once that happens?

Or was it like a permanent?

It came down and they were okay.

Well, with the fourth trimester vaginal steam study, they continued steaming.

So it's a good question.

Like how, like if you just did one...

How often did they steam?

They steam daily.

Yeah, for 10 minutes.

I mean, gosh, if we could do that instead.

I mean, we've had multiple people get postpartum preeclampsia where they are all of a sudden, you know, we've had home birth, birth center and hospital, all of them, where they're home and all of a sudden, they're getting symptoms and they didn't even have preeclampsia during pregnancy.

It just comes out of nowhere.

So if we could do this as a preventative measure, you know, when the hospitals are talking about doing pitocin preventively, prophylactically for hemorrhage and things like that.

And it's like, we could do something that costs zero money and has zero negative side effects to help with so many things that can have longevity of keeping women healthy and not having to go into hospitals after they've had their babies.

Yeah.

Yes.

Thank you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

And so then the third cause of maternal mortality is sepsis.

So that's infection of the lochia generally or a partially retained placenta.

So as we talked about, since steaming brings that circulation to the region, we often see that matter come down and out that's been trapped in the uterus sometimes for weeks or months.

So yeah, so that's also a hemorrhage risk because if there is trapped matter in the uterus, again, we're going to see those uterine arteries open up and try and flush it out.

So when we examine all of these factors, we can look at steaming as having the possibility and potential to save lives.

I mean, personally, I'm sure that it has many times over thousands of years, you know, and we just need to, yeah, do more studies.

I want to see a lot more studies on how this, like the percentages of cases that we wouldn't see, these maternal deaths, like wouldn't that be fabulous?

Anyways, I have big dreams.

So another fairly common issue is embolism, which is a clot that forms often in the uterine artery.

So it makes sense to me that if we add more circulation with steaming, we could potentially reduce the chance of embolism.

So yeah, and then like for new mothers and birthers, often we see the next checkup at six weeks after giving birth.

So having a Peristeam Hydrotherapist on board to help keep an eye on things and steam sessions to work to support that birthing person's body in numerous ways is just such a good idea.

And that person having agency and control over their own health, you know, that can make somebody feel really at peace in general.

Like trauma is caused when we have no choice.

And, you know, we feel like all of this stuff is being done to us and we have no agency.

So if we go, oh, you know, we're starting to see, say, some infected loci.

I have agency.

Here I can try this thing and help myself in the comfort of my own home.

So more peace too.

It also means our bodies can heal faster.

It can help us attune with our baby, lower our blood pressure, and assist us to integrate our birth experience, no matter how it went.

Yeah.

And also, you know, that care, that, you know, focusing on the mother and the mother's body, because so much in our culture, we're focused on producing a healthy baby, and everyone wants to see the baby, and, you know, here has this mother gone through or this birthing person gone through this huge experience, and she needs to be cared for, they need to be cared for very deeply.

So it's like this 10 minutes a day thing that she can do to care for her own body.

My goodness, I can go on about postpartum steam benefits, including, you know, we're seeing increased milk flow, more painless return to sex.

I just don't know what our timing is like.

Yeah, we're definitely, I mean, we could totally, and this is why you have to come back to do the thing about fertility, because we could talk for hours and hours and hours.

And I definitely want people that listen to this episode to see how it can benefit them and how it can help them.

So knowing those risk factors and all of those things is really helpful so that people know the why behind it.

Because like Samantha was saying, I didn't even know that this used to be a thing.

I thought this was a new fad, right, Sam?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

It's really interesting.

So knowing that we're starting to run a little bit short on time and wanting to make sure we get information into our listeners' hands, can you touch a little bit on the labor benefits and what that looks like?

I know you mentioned that if you are steaming during pregnancy, then you need to be working with a professional because it is not recommended in pregnancy outside of working with a professional.

Can you touch on that just a touch?

Yeah, for sure.

Steaming is contraindicated during pregnancy until the baby is considered full term.

So we begin working together at 36 weeks and we do an in-depth intake before any steaming takes place.

And then we'll continue with a couple consultations into birth.

Steaming not only helps the body optimally prepare for labor, but while in active labor, we've seen it help in numerous ways.

And this is something that you can actually take, I think, as a standalone course at the Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute because steaming during labor, as long as it's safe to have a vaginal birth, it's safe to steam.

So steaming during active labor, it helps soften the perineum and the vaginal muscles and it assists the skin in becoming more elastic and therefore hopefully preventing or lessening tearing.

We see this time and time again with steaming that is done during labor, that there is very rarely tearing, which is really quite remarkable.

One midwife Peristeam Hydrotherapist reports seeing steaming widen the vagina by three centimeters.

So steaming is also used in an attempt to increase dilation in active labor and soften the cervix, which can make a big difference in the easefulness of the delivery.

Often when we see baby's heart rate drop, that's when their head is up against a hard cervix.

So that can lead to a lot of interventions.

So if we make sure that cervix is soft, we could potentially eliminate the need for some of those interventions.

And we are seeing soft cervixes in most all women who steam during labor.

This is what blows my mind.

This is something, again, that is free, that is so easy to do.

It costs nothing afterward.

And it's like we could reduce even more, which they have been significantly reduced, but there's more work to be done, apesiotomies or potential vacuum assists or forceps assists.

If we have vaginas that are softened and comfortable and relaxed, and that's what we talk about in hypnobirthing as well.

So there's so much correlation here.

And it just, the people that we want to stop doing apesiotomies aren't going to want to have people do vaginal steaming because then they don't get to do sutures, which that's part of their job.

They feel like they've done their job when they've done that.

But once again, like we are always saying as doulas, if we would just get out of the way, if all of us would just get out of the way and allow the body to do what it's supposed to do, and this would facilitate that so much.

Absolutely.

Get out of the way and steam.

For sure.

And so we're also seeing that it's been reported to help shorten labor itself.

Steaming has helped to restart stalled contractions.

So that's important because when we're able to help labor along, we again see less interventions such as pitocin or even C-sections.

Assisting with pain relief during labor is huge.

People often find it so relieving that they want to keep up, keep it up, and steam sessions can be done quite frequently during labor.

One little case study is a woman who was sort of so comfortable with her steaming practice that she was in denial, that she was even in labor up until she was nine centimeters dilated.

And her midwife said, get in the tub.

And she gave birth three minutes later, and she was still in denial that she was even inactive labor.

Love that.

So again, steaming can be utilized in the case of retained placenta, which is very important.

So currently there are 30 hospitals in Europe who offer steaming during labor.

They'll be covered in the documentary Steam.

And what the midwives that are using steaming are finding is that women who choose to steam as it's offered to all their clients, deliver in a record amount of time, averaging a six hour labor, even for first time moms.

Yeah.

They're finding much fewer perennial tears, actually almost none.

There was one case that we know was a woman who did tear, but that had previous scar tissue issues.

So that's amazing.

I was saying no to this.

That is what's weird to me.

If they're offering it to everyone, it's so interesting that people would say no.

Yeah.

And generally they don't.

There's a midwife in Utah.

She offers it to all her clients and a hundred percent of her clients will steam in labor.

So yeah.

So generally, you know, when people are educated about the benefits, I mean, they say yes.

So yeah, because of all these results, hospitals in Europe who steam are having much less medical interventions like epidural, pitocin, and transfers to Caesarean surgeries.

Caesareans are the most performed surgery in the world at 29.7 million a year.

So that's 82,000 today.

Sometimes they're needed and wanted, but I can't help but wonder what the numbers would be if we had steaming in place for all labour, especially in the cases of cervix not dilating or staying hard or the maternal blood pressure rising or stalled labour.

But yeah, the Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute is exploring funding to analyse all these results from the hospitals in Europe.

It's so hard to get funding for anything like this because who makes money on it, right?

Again, it's free.

It's steamed water.

Nobody's getting it.

You don't have to plug that into the system and get it from the pharmacy.

So there's no money to be made from it.

So those are the things that make it so much harder to find any information about.

The things that Samantha and I are most interested in generally have the least amount of research.

Yeah, and it's true.

And so, yeah, sometimes we need to do independently funded, crowdfunded.

I do believe that we will find a way.

And those studies are so important to make that change, you know, change really can't happen within the medical system, especially in the United States without, you know, real true clinical studies to back things up.

So it's exciting that they're starting to explore that stuff so we can see some, some of those results.

Yes, yes, totally.

So if we have some beautiful hard data from Europe and we can say, here we go, birth without steam, birth with steam.

Oh, and did I mention that it feels so good?

I think that's important.

I know that we're talking about, we're talking about the, you know, the lack of studies or that we wish there were more.

And another reason that that's important is because it is important to know when not to use something.

So you already said that it's contraindicated in pregnancy before the pregnancy is far enough along that the baby would be viable or full term.

So are there any other times, are there any other conditions where you're like, hey, if you're listening to this and you have XYZ, like it's for sure not for you?

Yes, yes.

And for sure.

And I do like recommend, you know, if you have anything more than mild cramps going on, like different gynecological health issues, postpartum pregnancy, to work with a trained practitioner for sure.

But I will let you know, you never want to steam during the menstrual cycle or if there's any fresh bleeding.

Now, the exception to that is going to be the loci.

But again, you're going to be working with a Peristeam Hydrotherapist to read that.

So you know that it's safe.

Ironically, you never want to steam when you're pregnant, unless you have support from a certified Peristeam Hydrotherapist.

You want to make sure you're steamy at the right time for your body.

And it's unsafe until the baby is ready to be born, like we said, full term.

There are two levels of certification to be aware of.

There's Peristeam Facilitators, who can get you ready with a basic setup.

And then there's Peristeam Hydrotherapists, which is a much more in-depth training.

And we work with specific situations like birth, postpartum, endometriosis, fibroids, cysts, things like that.

So steaming is also contraindicated anytime that a vaginal birth is not safe, such in the case of placenta previa.

Steaming could bring on labour in some people.

And that is, of course, unless that person is making the choice to try and have a vaginal birth anyway, it could be risky.

Another piece to be aware of is if you're actively trying to conceive, steaming is contraindicated at ovulation and afterwards.

But if you want to optimize your fertility, it is best to work with a peristeam hydrotherapist to rebalance your menstrual cycle to what we call a standard healthy cycle, which is 28 to 30 days long, no cramps, no clots, no symptoms, red blood only.

Everyone's like, sign me up, sign me up for that regular cycle.

And then also, you know, if you're not, if you don't have a regular cycle, which again, common and normal are different, common to not have that, but that's what a normal cycle should be.

Although almost no one does, it seems.

But if you don't have that, you don't know if you're about to ovulate all the time without using all of these predictor kits and all of those things.

So you may accidentally be using it during a contraindicated time when you're trying to get pregnant if you don't even know for sure when that's happening.

Yeah.

So what I would recommend is, is getting together with a Peristeam Hydrotherapist when you think, okay, I'm wanting to have a baby.

And then we can work to rebalance your menstrual cycle to this standard healthy cycle first.

And then when that's achieved, we can give you a steam plan for conception, which, you know, case studies show, and there's fertility doctors in the United States that are actually using steaming with all of their patients now and getting, getting better results in IVF, like much better.

So pregnancy is shown to come very easily once that standard healthy cycle is achieved.

So yeah, working to rebalance your menstrual cycle is possible, regardless of which end of the spectrum that you're on.

You know, some people bleed for months at a time.

Some people have a missing period for months at a time, and we can work with that.

This is wild.

This is wild.

There's just, there's so much.

I think it's, it's obvious that we need to have you back so we can get really more into all of this because I'm really interested to hear about how it can affect fertility and all of these dark side.

Yeah, apparently.

But it's really interesting.

So I guess two, two last questions for you.

One, how can people find and connect with you?

And two, if they're not close to you, how can people find and connect other peristeam hydrotherapists so that they can use some of these things?

For sure.

And just one more thing before I go on to like how to get a hold of me is also, it's contraindicated to steam if your cycles are shorter than 19 days, or you have two periods per month or spontaneous bleeding, unless you're working with a peristeam hydrotherapist, because then we can have certain first aid herbs in place and then we can work like orally and then we can work to lengthen your cycle using very specific steam herbs, which herbs are very important and powerful.

And so you don't just want to go sort of willy nilly using some kind of blend that was created by someone who, you know, isn't trained because we actually have specific blends for specific cases.

So that being said, and then one more thing is that with surgeries, we usually want to wait six weeks post-op, including the caesarean section.

So that's just another piece to be aware of.

But yeah, it's incredible with the right herbs and the right steam plant, like what's possible.

So, so yeah.

And then in terms of getting a hold of me, I do global consultations over Zoom.

So yeah, I work worldwide.

And there's also a steam directory on the Peristeam Hydrotherapy Institute, if you want to see if there's somebody that you can work with you in person.

My website is www.luminouscreatics.com.

You can also check me out on Instagram at Luminous Create Tricks.

I share quite a lot of info there, but yeah, definitely global consultations over Zoom.

With an intake session, you receive an in-depth analysis of your situation, a personalized steam plan, troubleshooting email support, and additional lifestyle information to support you.

So even getting that one initial consultation can really like set you on a good path.

I also offer four individualized organic herbal steam blends.

So yeah, you'll have the correct herbs once you book an intake session.

And then, yeah, and then in terms of like sharing the practice with your birth and postpartum care team to assist you with labor and postpartum steaming, that's really nice because making a steam session is almost as simple as making a cup of tea.

So that should be like your tagline, making a steam session.

Like that just sounded like it was sort of your business motto.

Also, we will link all of those in the show notes and all of you listening.

Be sure to check out the show notes because there's actually a discount code that I'm not telling you what it is.

You have to look there in the show notes so that if you want to work with her, you can get a 15% off coupon code.

Yes, absolutely.

Well, thank you so much for being here with us today.

I'm so glad we finally were all three able to get on at the same time.

Y'all, we have rescheduled this quite a few times, and we will have to have you back to talk about fertility because I know a lot of our listeners are also very interested in fertility.

Absolutely.

I would love that.

Thank you so much.

It's been such a great experience to share some of the benefits of peristeam hydrotherapy with you all.

Thank you.

I love your work.

Keep it up.

Thank you.

I said it was a pleasure having you on.

Thanks.

Take care.

Cheers.

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