Birth, Baby!

The information provided on this podcast is for general information purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.

Always seek the advice of your qualified health provider with any questions you may have.

Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.

Reliance on any information provided here is solely at your own risk.

Welcome, this is Birth, Baby.

Your hosts are Ciarra Morgan and Samantha Kelly.

Ciarra is a birth doula, hypnobirthing educator, and pediatric sleep consultant.

Samantha is a birth doula, childbirth educator, and lactation counselor.

Join us as we guide you through your options for your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey.

All right, today we have our Mother's Day episode, and Samantha and I have both of our moms coming on to talk with us.

So first, we're gonna go into my mom's story of having me.

So this is Eve, my mom.

Do you wanna say hi to everybody?

Good morning, hello.

I'm very excited to chat with you about this because I always tell my clients, I feel like the birth story is kind of a setup for how your kids are when they're growing up a little bit.

So I'm curious to see how your birth with Ciarra was so I can, I don't know, investigate further.

Judge you a little bit, exactly, exactly.

So tell me about what it was like when you found out you were pregnant and what those kind of early days of pregnancy were like.

Well, I was 18, barely out of high school.

So I did not know I was pregnant.

I was on birth control and I took it fairly regularly.

I missed two days.

So I didn't really know I was pregnant.

I didn't assume I was pregnant, but I started experiencing symptoms, a lot of nausea, just mostly that and just kind of feeling out of sorts, not as much energy as usual.

And my friend one night, I was at her house spending the night and she said, maybe you should take a pregnancy test.

So we went and we bought a pregnancy test and we came back home and I took the test and lo and behold, it was positive.

And I just, you know, you're not pregnant.

You're not expecting to get pregnant.

You're 18.

So it was a lot to take in in the moment because literally between the first moment of, hey, you might be pregnant to you're pregnant was maybe an hour.

So I was laying on my stomach on her bed and my feet were kind of in the air and I think I was thrilled mostly, like unexpectedly thrilled.

But of course there was fear mixed in in that because what am I going to do?

How am I going to tell my parents?

And it was a little bit of a tug of war between being allowed to be as happy as I felt and then having to balance that with other people's disappointment.

Like I hate to put it that way, but your parents aren't happy when you're 18 and you get pregnant.

So I had a big, I wouldn't even say hill, I would say a big mountain to climb in terms of how my family handled it.

I was straight A student.

I had been just like the good girl, you know?

So even though I was a little bit of a rebel, I was always doing the right thing.

And so I guess that would sum it up.

Mostly thrill, but I wasn't even really allowed to express that all the time because there was so much else I had to handle also, knowing how the adults in my life are feeling.

It's funny because knowing what I know about you, Mom, and like how much of a I'm going to do it, and I'm reasonable and logical.

And like, so my mom was just a doer.

It's just, there's no, not ever a question.

It's just, we're going to do whatever it is that's in front of us and we're going to win.

Like, we're going to do it well.

And so it's funny that you, as being like, pretty responsible person in general, feel like you let yourself be excited about being pregnant at 18 is kind of surprising because that's not the logical thing.

Yeah.

I mean, but that was my first emotion was like overwhelming joy.

I was just happy about it.

But I also knew that there was going to be a lot to deal with, you know?

And in other emotional realms with, you know, the people that were still caring for me as I'm now going to say, I'm going to have a baby.

Yeah.

So, and I had friends that said, you better get an abortion or I'm not going to be your friend.

I mean, it wasn't just the adults in my life.

It was friends that were really afraid of where this was going to take my life.

And I think you said this, but were you still in high school when you found out you were pregnant?

You had just graduated?

No, I was in my first semester of college.

Oh, wow.

Oh, that's even scarier because then you're like in this kind of in between place too.

Yeah, it wasn't in between place.

I mean, you're transitioning into, hey, these are going to be my college years.

And then it's like exactly psych.

I mean, I finished that first semester of college and then I didn't go back until I think you were like four.

I was like four when I went back full time.

And so what was the, what were your like early pregnancy symptoms?

Were you very sick or was it pretty easy for you?

I was very nauseous and very tired.

I mean, I'm an energetic person and I can just remember, I don't nap.

If I'm going to take a nap, I'm sick.

But I slept all the time, just tired.

But all in all, the pregnancy itself was great.

I felt beautiful.

I went from the teenager with no appetite to, you know, trying to control my appetite.

And from wearing skimpy clothes to, you know, back then, when you were pregnant, you didn't wear tight t-shirts and accentuate your belly.

And, you know, everything was hidden under like big tent clothing.

So that was uncomfortable for me.

I remember, you know, when I think Ciarra was, maybe it was three, four or five years later, Demi Moore was on the cover of Vanity Fair magazine, nude pregnant.

You remember that photo, if you've ever seen it?

And I thought, oh, my, that's what I wanted when I was pregnant.

Like I wanted to be able to wear a t-shirt and you're just like covered up.

You didn't get to really celebrate.

And I felt beautiful.

I mean, I loved being pregnant, loved every minute of being pregnant, except for the clothing.

And you had some food aversions, right?

Like some pretty big ones.

Oh, I, oh, that's true.

I went from being, uh, you know, eat a hamburger and French fries and, you know, maybe that's all you ate that day.

I couldn't eat meat.

I couldn't stand the smell of meat.

And here you go.

If my stepmom was cooking meat, because I was living with my parents, I would go to the farthest corner of the house and stick my face in the pillow and became a vegetarian when I hated vegetables.

Absolutely hated them.

And now you talk about a link between mother and baby.

Ciarra was very much like vegetable and, you know, ate way so differently as a young child than I did as a young child.

And I felt like my, like knowing her when she was born, I felt like my appetite when I was pregnant was in sync with her.

Her appetite, not mine.

And you had, I think, shrimp, you said you could eat, right?

Like that was one of the only things.

And I love shrimp.

I craved shrimp.

I went on the cob was another one.

Vegetable, peanut butter.

I mean, literally, my whole way of eating went out the door.

I didn't even want it.

I was, it was awful, like an awful idea to me.

But all the vegetables and eating, yes, I craved shrimp and peanut butter and jelly and just knowing I did not even-

She would sneak into the kitchen at night, right, mom?

And grab a, what was that called?

I thought you said I didn't have to say anything I didn't want to.

Because every night she was like, go get this treat out of the freezer.

I would go into the freezer at like 11 o'clock at night and my stepmom always had these like individually wrapped brownie fudge sundaes.

And I would have one of those every night before I-

Well, maybe I would fall asleep and wake up and go get it depending on the night, but I always had one.

See, this is your fault that I have such a sweet tooth.

This is why I wanted to bring it up.

I can't even take responsibility for it.

It's you.

Vegetarian sweet tooth.

Yeah, exactly.

That's so funny.

It is really funny how-

The pregnancy itself was great.

I didn't really have health problems at the very end.

Like during labor, I had, and I don't even know what you call it, but blood pressure just went through the roof during labor.

Is that what that is?

But that's it.

The pregnancy was amazing.

I loved every second of it.

And so, like, I know kind of the standard of care has changed over the years.

So like, how often were you going to see, were you seeing an OBGYN and how often were you going to see them?

Do you know what, do you remember what that looked like?

Did they do ultrasounds?

They did, but they only did one and they wouldn't do it until you were, I think, five months pregnant.

So I don't really remember exactly how often I went, but yes, I had care.

I think it was just like at three months and then at five months you went and you got your ultrasound.

Were you able to find out the sex?

I know you didn't.

I don't think you found out the sex of me before I was born, right?

But were you able to if you wanted to?

Well, what they said at five months was, we can't tell.

It could be a boy or a girl because they didn't see a penis.

But they said it could have not dropped yet.

So they were just like not specific.

But I thought you were going to be a girl at that point.

Yeah, that's so interesting.

I think most of what I did was outside of the doctor's office.

They would go take this parenting class, probably because I was 18, and go do a Lamaze.

It was called Lamaze class.

Is there a Lamaze class anymore?

There is, but it's different.

Yeah, and your biological dad was in the army in Germany.

So my stepmom was my Lamaze partner.

And through the whole thing, I was saying, I want to go natural.

I don't want to get an epidural.

I don't want any of that stuff.

And so we did all this practicing, and she agreed, yes, when you go into labor, I'm going to coach you, and you're going to make it through it.

And then labor started, and it was like the first 10 minutes of bad labor.

And you don't have the training that you guys help people with these days.

I listened to Ciarra talk about this stuff, and there was no awareness of any of these techniques when I was going through it.

So all I remember is labor was getting intense, and my stepmom was leaning over me going, you can have an epidural if you want.

You're not supposed to say this to me.

But ultimately ended up having a C-section after like 20 hours or something like that.

Boiler alert.

Boiler alert.

Oh, sorry.

I didn't get coached well enough.

Oh, she just blamed us.

Did you hear that?

Tell us about when you were going into labor, because I thought that your story of like not knowing if you were in labor and going into labor was kind of fun.

Yeah, I was overdue by, I think, two days.

And your biological father was here from Germany, and we were out at a shopping mall all day, walking around.

And I was very modest, but I kept feeling like I had to go to the bathroom.

You know, my back was hurting and just feeling low pressure, but I was interpreting it as having to go to the restroom.

So as we're walking through this mall, I kept having to say, I need to go to the restroom.

I need to go to the restroom.

And so we go through the whole day, we get home.

It's been a huge day.

Everything these days, they would tell you not to do.

And it's like 11 o'clock at night, and I walked into the laundry room to do something and my water broke.

And boy, did labor came on fast after that.

Because I think I'd been in labor all day.

And what was it like, like, getting to the hospital?

And like, did you go right away?

And when you got there, like, did you get the uphill when Grammy said to?

We went right away.

And I remember it being a very sterile, like, almost felt like a jail cell with a bed in it, like, with a plastic wrap over it.

There was nothing comfortable about this room.

And they made me get an enema, which again, my modesty.

And at this point, I'm 19, and I don't want people doing this to me.

And just, I remember at this point, fear.

The pain was coming on.

I didn't feel prepared.

I didn't know how, even though I had taken those classes, I didn't feel like I knew how to handle this.

And I also don't think my coach was prepared to handle it, hence her throwing the epidural idea at me very prematurely.

But yeah, I mean, at this point, it was a lot of discomfort not only with the environment, but with the things that were being done to me.

And with what was happening to my body.

And maybe that's why my blood pressure went up.

Yeah, nobody ever said, you want to get up and walk around.

It was maybe, we'll lay over on your side.

But nobody was...

I've seen what you guys do with helping the mom, with rubbing her back or pushing in certain places or having them move around or putting them in positions that you feel like nobody did anything like that.

I don't even think it was conceptual notion even at that time.

Was my bio dad there?

You know what's funny is I've always known that he was walking around with you at the mall.

But my brain, when I've envisioned the stories that you've told me about having me, I've never seen him there.

So I didn't realize that he was in the room.

It's funny because when I visualize everything that's going on during those moments or those hours, the only person I can think of is my stepmom, Donna.

I don't think of him at all.

I don't think he...

Yeah, because he didn't take any of the classes with you.

No, and I don't even think he was in the room most of the time.

I think he and my dad, you know, men were outside.

I mean, they weren't...

I mean, I imagine if he had taken the Lamaze class with me, he would have been there.

But based on our circumstances, he took a passenger seat, and Donna took the driver seat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it was very scary.

It was not a pleasant experience.

It was very scary.

And I felt very out of control, unable to help myself, unable to even be able to ask for something that I would need.

I didn't even know what I needed.

You know what I mean?

So I don't know what else I can say about that.

It was pretty out of control.

So you were you were laboring in the realm.

And did you decide to get that epidural pretty early then when she suggested it?

Not right then, but probably within an hour or an hour and a half.

I did.

And then at what point you mentioned earlier that your blood pressure started going up.

When did that start happening?

Was it like as soon as you got there?

It was up when I got there.

And then at the time that they took me for a C-section, it was like an emergency C-section because I was hearing everybody talking in the background and I was exhausted.

So really, I can't even think visually at this time.

I think I was laying there with my eyes closed just listening.

And I was hearing them say, she's going to have a stroke.

And they were just, yeah, it was like escalating.

And so they took me for a C-section because of it.

It was like 19 hours of labor, right, before that happened?

Yeah, 19 or 20.

Do you know how many centimeters you were?

I only got to, I think, three or four in that entire time.

My doula brain is immediately like thinking through like, oh, well, she had back labor and she said she had all this like pressure.

And I bet that baby was a pea and then her blood pressure was going up.

And she probably went into labor earlier because her blood pressure was going up and her body knew that baby needed to be born.

Well, I was a little late at that point.

I wasn't early.

I was a little, just a couple of days late.

But yeah, I, it was, the pregnancy was a joy and the delivery was like the complete opposite.

It was so much like fear and chaos.

Were you awake for the C-section?

You were.

Was Grammy in there?

No, she wasn't in there.

I, they didn't want to put me to sleep for the C-section.

And you know me, I have no stomach for medical things.

So I was, they were telling me, okay, we're going to cut through this.

And then, and I kept like saying, stop telling me.

I don't want to know.

I don't want to know what you're doing.

And, and I said, and as soon as you deliver the baby, please put me to sleep.

I was just, my anxiety was through the roof.

I didn't want to have to be awake for any more of this.

And then, so I was kind of quiet.

They're talking quietly.

I've got a screen in front of my face.

If I wanted to, I could have looked up at a mirror to see what they were doing.

And my anesthesiologist, I don't know what his name was, but he was the most amazing person for me that entire time.

He was so calming and sure of himself and just made me feel like everything was going to be okay.

So, all of a sudden, I don't even know how close they are to delivering Ciarra.

And all of a sudden, I heard somebody say, oh my gosh, she looks like an eight-pounder.

Or I think they said nine or ten-pounder.

And they didn't say she.

They said it looks like, I'll just say nine-pounder.

And I'm going, is it a boy or a girl?

Is it a boy or a girl?

And somebody said, oh my gosh, she just looks like a nine-pounder.

And then I'm trying to then, with all this excitement now that I'm feeling, I'm trying to tell the anesthesiologist, I don't want you to put me to sleep.

I was wrong.

But it's like, all I can picture at this moment is this mask coming toward me and covering up my face.

And that's it.

I heard it looks like a whatever pounder.

And oh my gosh, she just peed on me.

And then I was out.

Oh my gosh, I didn't know that.

And it was because you had been asking for it beforehand.

I guess.

Well, yeah, you thought he was doing what I wanted.

And I was like, you know, when things are happening, I mean, he had promised me, maybe I should have not been so literal with them.

Like as soon as they deliver the baby, put me to sleep, he was doing what I said.

But then I changed my mind and I couldn't get the words out before he did that.

And you go to sleep so quickly.

And he was probably so proud.

He's like, I just took such good care of this mom.

I did exactly what she wanted.

Oh, that's so hard.

Yeah.

And then I woke up in a room alone.

And I felt so mad because I was alone.

And somebody knocked on the door.

And I thought it was going to be one of my family members whom I was angry with at this point.

So somebody said, knock, knock, and I said, like, who is it?

And a voice said, we have a visitor for you.

And I thought, I can't think of anyone I want to see.

You know, I didn't say that.

I didn't say that.

But then a nurse walked in and she had Ciarra and she handed her to me.

And I just melted.

All my anger went away.

Everything went away.

It was beautiful.

That's awesome.

You made me cry.

How long after?

Oh, my mom doesn't cry, y'all.

She doesn't do that.

That's true.

How long after?

I guess, how long were you in the room before you woke up and they brought you Ciarra?

Do you remember?

I have no idea.

I don't.

I wasn't even in recovery.

I was in a room.

So I don't even remember recovery.

Oh, yes, I do remember recovery because I was in severe pain and they're making, you know, they want you to cough before you can take a drink of water.

And I couldn't cough.

I was in pain.

And I remember being so mad about that.

And I looked at the nurse and I said, Look, if I choke, I'll cough.

But I'm not.

I can't.

I don't want to cough right now.

And I was, you know, probably being a little.

Can you see it?

Say the B word on this?

And then that's all I remember in there.

And then I was in that room and I don't know how long they let me sleep in there before.

I have no idea.

It could have been an hour.

It could have been 10 hours.

I have no idea.

I never asked.

It's interesting because I have a hard time coming out of anesthesia.

And I think that you and I are similar where it's like it might take more to put us under, but then it takes a while for us to come out.

So I wonder if that was kind of what you were experiencing was like, well, I guess we're just going to let her wake up on her own then.

And you know, in the C-section, when they just numb you, I was scared to death and they were like, they poke on your stomach.

Can you feel it here?

Can you feel it there?

And I was saying, yes, I can, I can feel when you're poking.

And they said, well, where, where are we poking right now?

And I told them exactly.

And they were like, oh my God, she really can still feel this.

So then they gave me more of whatever it was.

And then at that point, I couldn't even feel myself breathe.

I was getting paranoid and my arms were like involuntarily flailing, like just jerking around and they had to tie my arms down.

And I mean, it was just more, more of the chaos of that whole labor and delivery.

It's so scary because you're a 19 year old kid.

And although you're really excited about having this baby, you're now in this situation where you don't have your person, you don't have Grammy, you don't have whoever, no doula in there to like explain what's going on, to help you calm, like to use techniques to help with that all and explain it's almost done or whatever.

Like just having that person there during a C-section can be really helpful and grounding.

And your arms are flailing and you are terrified of what's going on.

And that's just so overwhelming.

It's wild to think of you as somebody who's so in control and always very metered to like feel so out of control.

I think I would have described it then as feeling out of control.

Because as a kid, you're in a lot of situations where you've never been in them before.

And you're kind of having to make your way through the dark, so to speak, on your own.

But it definitely was an out of control situation.

But I wasn't like overwhelmed like this is out of control.

I was just I had a lot.

You know, there was fear and there was anxiety and there was chaos.

I don't have very many good descriptors to put on those hours.

So when did people come find you?

When did your family and people show back up?

I think it was very shortly after that.

I think, yeah, it wasn't long at all.

And I'm glad Ciarra came in first because I, you know, they must have known she was going to come out swinging.

I was so calm and I was so peaceful.

And so then when my family came in, all that anger was, I didn't feel angry anymore.

I didn't feel, I didn't even remember that I had felt angry.

Oh, that's so good.

I'm sure that that would have been a very different experience if it had happened the flip way.

And yes, I think so too.

And Ciarra, she was born with hair still coming around her ears.

You literally could put a comb through it.

And it wasn't blonde hair.

It was dark hair.

And dark hair down her back.

Looks like a little monkey that way.

But then she had this big, huge pot belly and these long, skinny arms and legs.

So I thought she looked like a combo Kermit the Frog monkey.

Because she was built like Kermit the Frog, and then she had all this crazy hair all over herself.

And how much did she end up weighing?

Eight pounds, four ounces.

She was a big baby.

Yeah.

I had two over eight pound babies myself.

They run in families, man.

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

I wouldn't change.

I mean, I guess I was just about to say, I wouldn't change a thing about anything, but I think if I could change a thing to have somebody like one of you two, and I'm not saying this gratuitously, but to have somebody like one of you, to help somebody through that, like the stark contrast between what you guys do and what my experience was, I don't think there's anybody on earth that would pick my experience over the experience somebody can have with a doula or some kind of coach that knows what they're doing and knows what your body's, knows what you're going through better than you know what you're going through.

And I think it's so, I mean, really, like the doula profession has been around for so long, but I think it's grown into popularity because of stories like yours, where women like you go through experiences like that, and they think, gosh, what could I have done to make a difference in that situation?

And then they do the work, and then they have daughters like Ciarra and I, and we do what we do now.

And all of that has grown from stories like yours, because that was the norm for a long time, really.

It was.

It was.

The men got to sit out.

At the time that I was having Ciarra, I think men were more involved.

My Lamaze class was full of men with their wives.

Everybody was, they were in sync, and the men were trying to help.

But then when my mom had us, men waited out in the hallway and completely hands off.

And the progression in just three generations is quite amazing.

Yeah, truly.

I mean, yeah, it's so cool.

Someday I would love to take a look back at the history of all of those things.

If you Google like a birth back then, if there are any videos of births back then versus a birth with a doula, that would be a pretty interesting thing to watch.

Definitely.

I really think that the invention of, or I guess the growing popularity of Lamaze and Bradley classes really changed the landscape so much.

Bradley is all about partner.

And now we're like, well, of course, it's all about partner-supported exercises.

But that wasn't the case back in the 80s and 90s.

Classes were growing.

So it was really like a revolutionary idea.

Like, oh, the dad is also supposed to be there.

They're also a part of this journey.

And that was looked down on.

I mean, that was just like ridiculous.

Right?

Why do that?

Yeah, there was scrutiny about it.

And that goes back to there was also scrutiny.

You know, I said, I felt pretty when I was pregnant, but I had to wear these tents over myself.

And then, you know, flash forward three to five years, whenever that was, of Demi Moore, where she celebrated the pregnancy.

You know, you were supposed to hide it.

There was supposed to be nothing, nothing going on here, nothing beautiful, or you would never say sexy associated to a pregnancy.

But, you know, Demi Moore changed that.

And I guess doulas are changing what people think about and expect during birth.

You definitely can expect a lot more these days out of it.

You've never been much of a rule follower.

You've kind of beat your own path pretty well.

So I'm actually kind of surprised that you wore the tents and you didn't just keep wearing your crop top with your belly out.

I mean, you were doing backflips off the high dive when you were pregnant with me.

I was a size four when I got pregnant.

And it would have been like the Hulk when he turns green.

I had nothing.

There was nothing I could put on my body.

It's like that Friends episode where Rachel has that top on and Ross is like, is that what you're going to wear out of the house?

When she's nine months pregnant, she's like, do you want to fight me?

That's what I'm imagining.

Yeah.

And I said I didn't know what I needed during labor, but also while I was pregnant, even though I was feeling pretty and I loved the whole experience of being pregnant, I hear people, oh, I can't wait to have this baby.

And I guess at the very end, I felt like that because you get excited for it, right?

But I didn't.

It wasn't because I wasn't enjoying the pregnancy.

I enjoyed the pregnancy.

And I didn't, you know, I hated those clothes, but I wasn't imaginative enough to think, I just felt like, oh, this is what you have to wear, you know?

I just didn't have that creative imagination to go somewhere else.

And boy, I think every aspect of pregnancy has been improved, much improved over the last few decades.

Okay, so you had a great pregnancy.

You had a great crap delivery.

And can you give us a quick little, like, how was your postpartum?

It just was a beautiful life.

I mean, I didn't have any...

Just switch back to that nice part.

I didn't have, yeah, back to the nice part.

I didn't have any postpartum symptoms.

I was 19, so I think...

I mean, I have pictures of you when you're just a couple months old and I'm super skinny in a bikini again.

It looks like I've never had a child.

To be 19 and...

Exactly.

I mean, it was gone.

I was back to Bruce Banner in 10 Seconds Flat.

And were you breastfeeding or were you bottle feeding?

I was breastfeeding.

I think I had probably a lot of old world notions.

I wanted to have a natural childbirth.

I wanted to breastfeed.

But I didn't really have the tools to make all of that possible for myself.

Even my coach, Donna, she didn't have the tools to help me through the labor.

So I just lost my train of thought.

Where were we going with that?

Oh yeah, the breastfeeding.

So I did breastfeed and I breastfed for about three months.

And then I got really sick.

I got a high fever.

And I don't know if these days they would tell you not to breastfeed while you have a high fever, would they?

They would hope that you would still do it.

They told me not to.

And so that's kind of when it came to an end, because I was sick for like a week and a half.

And by the time that week and a half was over, okay, now you're on a bottle and I haven't breastfed in a week.

Yeah, your supply, I'm sure was gone at that point.

And breastfeeding was also a place where I had no coaching.

And you have this fear like, is the baby getting enough food?

You can't tell.

You feed them a bottle, you know, they just drink four ounces.

Your breastfeeding, I didn't have any confidence in whether or not Ciarra was getting everything she needed.

Right.

And at that point, formula feeding was being pushed so heavily by the medical community.

Like breastfeeding was like, who would do that?

Why?

I never bought into that.

Yeah.

I didn't.

I remember that, but I didn't buy into that.

I wanted to breastfeed.

And I didn't think about this when you guys asked me on.

But as we're going through all, because I haven't talked about all of this in so long, but as we're talking about it and because I know so much about what you guys do, because Ciarra is my daughter, and we talk nonstop about them.

As I'm telling these stories, I'm like, boy, I really could have used a doula.

And boy, I probably needed some breastfeeding help.

And I mean, I had all these things that, like I said, I didn't even know I needed them.

To go back to what I would have needed them.

Yeah.

What you said in the beginning, Sam, when you were like, I like to kind of connect and see how our lives are affected by our births.

One of the things that I thought of was, you know, the very first birth client I had as a doula was an 18 year old girl in her senior year of high school giving her baby for adoption.

And so that's kind of interesting that that is the first client I serve.

Was someone who was my mom about my mom's age, who made a different choice than my mom.

But pretty interesting that I got to then experience and give back because I did that birth for free.

They offered to pay me and I was like, Nope, you paid for the birth class.

I'm going to do this part.

And very amazing that you did that.

I didn't know that.

Well, it felt I knew you helped her.

I didn't know you did it for free.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just felt like I needed to.

I was like, Gosh, my mom was 18, 19 having a baby.

And like she was keeping her baby.

But this woman is going through even more emotional stuff to, you know, gift her baby to someone, another family.

And it was so powerful.

And her stepmom, oh my gosh, this just connected you guys.

Her stepmom was her best friend.

I just got chills all over.

Oh my gosh.

And this is going to be coming out one day before that baby's birthday.

I think that we're launching this one on the 10th, I think of May is when this is slated to go because it's a Mother's Day episode and that baby was born on Mother's Day weekend.

So that is really interesting how that all comes full circle.

That girl was strong.

Oh, yeah.

She was very strong, very strong.

So well, thank you, Mom, for coming on and telling us.

I know this is out of your comfort zone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I know I can.

I barrel through anything, but I'm not.

You know, you're you're all about this.

And I sort of would rather be a wallflower in these situations.

The touchy feely stuff, not so much the mathematical black and white.

You've got that down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's true.

I think this was this was so great, though.

I think it's just it really is just so powerful, I think, to hear about.

I mean, one, Ciarra's like origin story for going into Marvel things here.

But also just like where we as a, you know, as a profession, I guess, kind of have been and where us as women have been and how far we've come and how some things are very similar and some things are very different.

And I think it's just really powerful that, you know, Ciarra got to have such a different birth story for her own children.

It's cool to think of what our daughters someday will hopefully, you know, there's so many things that like as doulas, Ciarra and I are like, oh my gosh, like this needs to improve.

This is so terrible.

This is so terrible.

And we want better for our daughters.

And it'll be so hopefully powerful to see what they get to experience someday if and when they decide to have their own children.

Yeah.

It's like I can't even think about how you guys could improve it now.

Birth with you.

And then you were like, I'm not doing that again.

And then your birth with Anson was more closely associated with what you're doing for other people now.

And what you wanted, you know, finally came to fruition.

But didn't even know I wanted it.

Yeah.

Right.

And, you know, then we look back and it's like, you got to be in the room for both of those births, which is really cool.

And you got to see that kind of progression of how much further we were getting away from what happened to you.

So our daughter has to have a home birth is basically what we're trying to say here.

That is how, that is the progression.

And I'm older, so I'm like, I'm always thinking to myself, no, just go to the hospital.

I know you are.

But that's, but I, you guys, you guys have it and you guys do it all the time.

And my hat's off to you.

Thank you, Mom, for being here.

And next up is Samantha's Mama.

So bye, Mom.

Bye, guys.

All right, y'all.

Now that we have heard from Ciarra's mom, we're going to have my mom tell us about her births.

So thanks for coming on, Mom.

If you're watching the YouTube, you can see she's sitting next to me here with us.

And we are very excited to have her on.

So do you want to start off by just telling us a little bit about you and your family?

Me?

Talk about me, would you?

I have had five babies, and all five pregnancies and birth stories are as completely unique and individual as the five little humans that it produced.

And so my first was Samantha, and it was a fairly normal pregnancy.

No one knew I was pregnant forever because I had strong stomach muscles and didn't show until like seven months.

Yeah, people didn't even wear maternity clothes until like seventh month or something.

But then the week before she was due, she was due on a Monday, and on that Friday I went in and the doctor said that my blood pressure was starting to rise and said, take it easy this weekend, keep an eye on your blood pressure.

My mother was a nurse by training, and so she checked my blood pressure like every hour for the entire weekend.

She took her job very seriously.

So wait, what I'm getting from this is that my mom also had high blood pressure and Samantha's mom, so basically we make people's blood pressure go up is what you're trying to tell me.

And actually my girls, I was very, very nauseous.

Like the first five months of the pregnancy, I was super nauseous with the girls and throwing up all the time.

And with the boys, I would be nauseous, but not throwing up just a little bit nauseous.

And so my girls made me sick.

But anyway, so the blood pressure continued to rise through the weekend.

And then we went in on Monday and they said, well, let's induce and let's not take a chance that it gets worse.

And so we went out to dinner and had our last parentless evening together and went to the hospital and was induced.

And she was born early the next morning.

It was a pretty simple process.

My body was ready to go into labor anyway.

And so she was there by 730 in the morning.

Pretty simple.

Two years later, I was pregnant with another child.

And that was a whole other story.

That was a problem pregnancy from start to finish and really a whole story of its own.

But I was on bed rest for about a month.

And then he was induced about five weeks early.

And so he came early and tiny and a little sick and had to work through all of that.

So that was a whole different event.

Baby number three.

That one, I kept praying, God, I just want a normal pregnancy.

Can I just have like normal pregnancy symptoms?

And the doctor, for whatever reason, even though I had had problems with these other pregnancies, he didn't want to do an ultrasound.

I had had to change doctors from insurance.

And so he didn't want to do an ultrasound.

And so I didn't know what we were going to find.

And I was fairly convinced this was going to be two babies because I mean, you know, at the end, you either can't breathe or have no space for your bladder.

I didn't have either.

I was sure it was going to be twins.

He was so active and moving all the time.

And I think I was wearing maternity clothes at like two and a half months pregnant.

I mean, I was just convinced it was going to be two.

And instead, it was one that was just shy of 10 pounds.

The labor was, I mean, the first contraction came while I was making breakfast for the other two.

And he was born before lunch.

It was about a three hour labor and delivery.

I love that.

Did you make it to the hospital?

I did.

We got to the hospital because like as soon as the contraction started, they were like two minutes apart.

So I called my mother-in-law and she came and picked me up and she took the kids.

Because dad wasn't home, right?

Yeah, he was at work.

So she came and we met with Greg and she took the kids and Greg took me to the hospital.

And we get in and the nurse is like, well, you're only at three centimeters, so you should leave.

And I'm like, well, I live an hour from here and this is baby number three.

I really don't want to leave.

And she's like, fine, you can walk around.

And so after she was like, walk for an hour and we'll check you again.

And then after about 45 minutes, she says, you don't handle pain very well, do you?

Because I couldn't walk through the pain anymore.

I had to stop and I would squat down and I was trying to breathe.

And yeah, it was kind of, I really, my blood pressure is right.

And so she, they finally took me back and she's like, well, I'll check you.

And by then, the doctor didn't even make it.

He got there good 15, 20 minutes after Jeremiah, because yeah, I was so far along.

And this folks is why even in a fast labor with a third pregnancy, doulas can be so helpful because then we can be like, hey, no, she's about to have a baby right now.

We don't know that way, but we know we trust you and we trust your body versus the people who are just jaded and treat you like one in a million.

And by the way, this makes me want to have my mother-in-law on because people also didn't believe her that she was in labor.

So maybe we're going to have to have a mother-in-law episode.

We might, yeah.

So yeah, so Jer came super fast, which was really fun because there were no drugs involved.

And I mean, like I could have seriously gotten up after I had him and gone back to work.

I mean, it was just, I felt so good.

Was that your first unmedicated one?

That was my first unmedicated one.

And I was like, wow, what a difference that makes, you know?

And so I was all about doing it without drugs after that.

And then the fourth baby came along and she just had to do everything different from the start.

She was turned around, you know, so it was back labor and took a lot longer because of that, you know.

But still, I think it was a total of like seven hours still.

And I feel like that was really long, but I understand logically that for most people isn't.

But to me, that was long.

Seven hours of back labor is long.

Yeah.

When you're feeling back labor, it is.

Yeah.

They put me in a tub, in a hot tub thing, and said, if you sit in here for a while, and that'll help her.

And so the doctor comes in, she's kind of talking to us, and she's getting ready to leave.

And I said, I think I need to get out of the tub.

And she's like, no, no, just stay there.

And I said, no, I think I need to get out of this tub.

And I'm like, Greg, get me out of the tub.

And he's like, no, the doctor said this.

Greg, get me out of the tub.

Nobody's listening to me.

And I mean, it did water birth, didn't it?

That wasn't a concept for me.

I just didn't even get it.

But so they get me into the bed and then they couldn't, the nurse or the doctor is like standing there.

She was there and she was like trying to get her gloves on.

And she was like, don't push, don't push, don't push.

Oh, don't push, don't push.

And the nurse is getting on the other glove.

Don't push, don't push, don't push.

And there was a baby.

Was this at a hospital?

Oh, yeah.

Here in Austin?

Oh, no.

I was in...

Oh, okay.

Fort Worth at the time.

I was going to say a tub in the room.

Loving that.

Wish we still had that at normal hospital rooms.

That's awesome that you were able to do that.

It was.

It was.

But it was...

Yeah, they still didn't quite believe that I was...

Because she had gone from like, again, three to ten in a matter of, I don't know, 20 minutes or 15 minutes.

Super fast.

And so there was that.

So then we had a seven-year gap and we had a surprise...

They were done.

They were done having babies.

We just are being mean now.

And so then we have this bonus round I get pregnant with.

And it was such a shock to the system.

I was homeschooling four children at the time and working full-time in the evenings.

And my body was tired and overweight and, you know, in the mom phase of life and my body wasn't having it.

So I had a lot of problems with this pregnancy that were because of me, you know.

When I had problems with Zach, it was because of the baby itself.

And so it was a whole different ball game because early on I had nausea and throwing up and we didn't tell anybody we were pregnant for the longest time with Joseph.

And because, you know, you're a little bit embarrassed, you know, we've already got four kids.

We can barely afford life and here I am pregnant with a fifth child.

And Sam says she figured it out because I was...

She was throwing up so much and like she would be like running to the bathroom at all hours of the day.

And I'm, I think I was 13 or something at that point.

And she would run to the bathroom and throw up.

And my dad, who normally is a, he's, you know, he loves my mom.

He's a very caring person, but he would just like look over the couch and he'd be laying on the couch watching TV and be like, you're good.

He was a little too comfortable with her throwing up.

He was so chill about it.

And I'm like, why is my mom throwing up all the time?

And then I'd come back and make dinner some more.

I can't believe you hid it even from the kids.

Like I am the worst the moment I was pregnant, basically, like I told my other kids.

I cannot keep a secret.

Yeah, I don't, I don't know.

I think we were, well, it took, honestly, I was probably, it was probably six weeks after I had missed the period.

And so I knew I was pregnant for a good four to six weeks before I even told Greg.

I was, yeah, I didn't, I, I, I was trying to convince myself I was in menopause.

At 38.

I wasn't sure that having another baby was the right thing to do at that point in our life.

We were in a very difficult situation.

Greg had lost his job and we were just really struggling financially.

And then all of a sudden, whoa, here's a baby.

You know, like what?

It was 2006, so it was like right at the beginning of like, you know, the housing crisis and all these different things that were going on.

So yeah.

And Greg's in the construction industry, so it highly affected him.

And so it was just, I don't know, I didn't, yeah, I didn't tell Greg until I was like six or eight weeks old.

And it was another two months before we were willing to tell anyone else.

And we had told the kids and his parents were coming to visit.

And so we felt like we had to tell the families because the kids wouldn't be able to keep a secret, right?

So you have to tell families.

And so we told the families and it just, yeah, I remember the first person that I told was the children's pastor at my church because I knew he would be excited and I needed somebody to be excited to help me get excited.

I had a time about early on, maybe three months or something where I had done something, you know, cleaning or doing something that I had pulled something.

And so I was bleeding at night and I and Greg was working an overnight job at that time and I started bleeding very heavily and it scared me and absolutely freaked me out.

And I called Greg and he came rushing home and we went to the hospital and left 13-year-old Samantha with all the sleeping children.

I do remember waking you up and telling you, but we went to the hospital and I think that was when it sunk in with us.

This is a life that we love already and that was the change for me.

That was the moment that it went from being, oh my gosh, I'm pregnant, what am I going to do?

To this is a baby, this is going to bless our lives, this is going to be a wonderful thing.

From then on, I was very excited and everything was fine with that.

She wanted it to be twins.

She kept saying, I really hope it's twins.

I really want twins so that he's not alone, he's not just the youngest, kind of seven years apart from anybody.

That's me.

I am the youngest of five and I'm six and a half years after my sister.

I always felt lonely and I always felt like I was an only child with siblings and I didn't want that for my child.

I really did hope that it would be twins because it was way too hard of a pregnancy to try to do it again.

I knew that, but it is what it is.

He is a total blessing.

But then, let's see, moving along with the pregnancy, trying to keep track.

As the pregnancy progressed, because I was overweight and overactive and all of this, I began to develop high blood pressure and so eventually they had me on medicines, lots and lots of medicine for the high blood pressure and it wasn't slowing down.

So they put me on bed rest and I was on bed rest for, I don't know, six weeks or something.

Because we had four children already, we just divided them up and sent them off to different places.

We sent one to grandma's and one to Aunt Laurie's and one to the other grandma's.

And Samantha spent a couple of weeks at youth camp and on a youth trip and in between she just got stuck with take care of mom duty.

And so she was there a lot to help me out and that was very good because I wasn't allowed to get up for any like 10 minutes a day or something was my limit of being up.

They had so total and I had a friend that would come a couple times a week and I would move from the bed to the floor and then she would change the sheets on the bed and help me clean up a little bit and help me get back into bed and stuff like that.

One thing that was really cool about that time period is that we had moved into a rental house that had a pool.

And so the whole time I was on bed rest, we just like put it out there to all of our friends and said, hey, you know, Greg's working all day, the kids are gone, but Bren needs food.

So if you want to bring your kids over and swim in the pool, bring Bren some food and have some time in the pool.

I like that, baiting them in, bribing them with pool usage.

I have a pool and I connect with that.

We did have people like, I swear, almost every day somebody came and brought us food, bring their whole family and, you know, I'd sit in bed and eat while they would all play in the pool and our kids would join if they were around and, you know.

I have a pool and they will come.

I come home sometimes and we did not plan on having household people and we do.

So yes, it is a great community builder for sure.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you didn't feel so lonely too.

So that's nice.

Yeah, yeah, it was.

I had friends that brought food, friends that would come and just clean for me and things like that.

We also moved in the middle of the, like a week and a half before I got put on bed rest.

And actually the doctor had said, the doctor said, okay, I need you to take it really easy now.

You're probably going to get put on bed rest before too much longer, but I need you to take it easy.

And we were moving that weekend and I was like, okay.

So we worked real hard through the weekend and moved and then I got put on bed rest.

Surprise, surprise.

And I do, I think, I think it's important to push back a little bit on one piece of your narrative.

You, you keep saying that your blood pressure was because of your weight and that likely played a factor in it, but high blood pressure like that is friends for that are listening.

High blood pressure, like what she was experiencing was preeclampsia, not gestational hypertension caused by maternal factors.

So maternal factors can play a part in preeclampsia, but preeclampsia is primarily caused by the placenta meaning that it was actually the baby's fault.

Actually, we think the placenta research is showing that placenta is mostly paternal DNA, so it was dad's fault.

It was dad's fault that you were on bad rest all the way through.

But at the time, I was told that my weight had a lot to do with it.

And it probably had some factors in it, but I just want anyone listening to be aware, just because you are a higher BMI does not mean that you're going to have preeclampsia.

Yeah, it's a part of it, it's a portion of it, but it is certainly not the whole story.

Yeah.

And like I said, I had the blood pressure issues with you and I was very skinny.

I was very skinny at the time, so obviously it wasn't related.

But the whole mom guilt thing, you got to take it all on yourself.

And that's funny because that's my mom too.

She was like best shape of her life.

She was 19 and could bench press her own weight.

And then here she was with extreme preeclampsia, like all of a sudden out of nowhere and had to rush to a c-section.

So yeah, it's kind of wild.

Like that was your story with me.

That was Eve's story with Ciarra and that was my story with Micah too.

And all of us were really young and really thin.

And so I think I think that just kind of goes to show.

That's true.

That's true.

I do blame it on myself.

I probably shouldn't.

But but anyway, so I yeah, I don't know what I was saying though, where I was at in the story.

Um, bad rest for six weeks and so how often were you going?

I remember because I was, you know, 13, 14, however old I was at this point and was home during the summer, but was 13 or 14.

So I only cared like a little bit.

I was more concerned with my own summer plans.

So I remember you going to the doctor a lot and it was a conversation a lot of like, okay, you know, mom's blood pressure is really high.

So the doctor is going to look at this and and it was a plan.

I don't remember when the plan was hatched, but it was the plan that I was going to be there for the birth.

And I don't remember when that happened, but we were all just all kind of paying attention to that.

Like whenever you do have to go have the baby, I was going to go as well.

Right.

We had decided, I don't know when, at what point, but we had decided that Samantha was at a stage where she was very interested in babies and very interested in my pregnancy.

At least I felt like she was, maybe she wasn't.

But I felt like she was.

And so we had decided that she was old enough at 13 to accompany us and be there for the birth.

And I don't know when that was decided, but you were also the only one in town at the time.

So, you know, but yeah, we did.

We did work that into it and made that a plan.

And when we I was on bed rest and then they I was going to the doctors two or three times a week because I had the specialist that I had to go to once a week and the and the regular doctor that I went to once a week and sometimes twice for the specialist.

And so, yeah, I was and I was like our house had the bedrooms were all upstairs.

And I was not allowed to do stairs, except, you know, three times a week to go down the stairs to go to the doctor and then come back up.

And so it was blowing my mind about all of this is like, imagine, I mean, you have four other children at home.

Not only are you not allowed to get out of bed to help them, but you're not even allowed to go up and down the stairs because you're like that's and that's how your house is.

And you're having to go to two doctor appointments a week with these four kids that you have to find help for.

This is impossible.

Yeah, that's why we sent them off.

Grandmas and aunts and out of town.

They were they were not in town.

For six weeks.

For weeks.

At least three weeks, all of them were gone.

It was it was very difficult because I was like, as soon as I had had the baby, I was like, bring my babies home.

I need all my babies home.

I was just I was like, meeting my kids.

The line nest.

Yeah.

And so they we went they were doing all the checking and making sure he was developed enough and as much as they could and stuff.

But eventually my blood pressure reached the point where they couldn't.

They didn't want to wait.

So they decided to induce and see if that would bring labor on which.

And how many weeks were you at 35, 34 and a half, somewhere in there.

I don't really remember.

It's been to 34 because he was 34.

I remember he was six weeks early.

Like such a big deal to me.

Yeah.

Well, it was kind of a big deal.

I mean, it is a big deal.

But yeah, so we went to the hospital and they weren't sure if they were going to keep me.

I was very, very drugged for the whole time I was at the hospital because they had me on all this magnesium and all these things that give you horrible headaches.

And so then they had me on painkillers on top of it.

So the whole week or two or whatever that I was in the hospital, I don't know.

It's very foggy for me.

So the majority of that birth story is just a big question mark in my head.

And Greg and Sam probably have better stories of that than me.

I do remember the actual labor.

They had me laying down because of the magnesium.

I couldn't get up and stuff.

So I'm laying down and they sat me up so that they could do the epidural.

And because they thought they were going to have to do a c-section.

Because she labored on magnesium for a long time before she ever got the epidural.

Like a day and a half or something.

A really long time.

A really long time.

At 34 weeks pregnant.

Yeah.

And so they were going to go ahead and just do a c-section.

And so they sat me up and the process of being upright sent the labor into craziness.

And so they had a really hard time doing the epidural because they didn't want to do it during a contraction and sitting me up started the contractions just one on top of the other.

So they had a really hard time giving me the epidural.

So they finally get the epidural in and they're like, all right, we're just going to give that a minute to sit in your body for a minute and then we'll take you into the OR.

Because her blood pressure was continuing to rise on the magnesium.

So they decided that continuing labor wasn't going to be a good idea anymore.

I'm sure sitting up like that increased the blood pressure.

But what's funny is you look back on it and you're like, wouldn't it be cool to know if they had sat you up a day earlier with that amount?

Exactly.

So we're sitting there and I said to the doctor, okay, this has been a really long time for me.

What is it you're supposed to feel when you have the epidural and the baby's coming?

She's like, well, if you feel like you have to poo, like to push, that pressure is usually the pressure of the baby.

I'm like, okay, I feel that.

And she's like, all right, just let me know when you do.

If you do.

And I was like, no, can you check?

And she was like, well, okay, but I mean, again, kind of dismissing me, or at least I felt that.

And she, were you even at the room in that point?

So they had kicked me.

They decided they were going to do the epidural and I had to leave because only my dad could be in there during the epidural.

So I went down the hall and was like sitting somewhere, talking, I think I was like texting or talking on my phone to my friends, you know.

And then my dad comes running down the hall and says, you have to come back right now.

The baby's coming.

And I was like, well, I know the baby's coming because they were about to take her to the OR for a C-section.

I was like, I know the baby's coming.

He's like, no, right now.

And I was like, oh, okay.

And I go running down the hall and she's like up in stirrups and the baby is like there almost.

Like you could see the baby.

I don't remember a lot of that other than rushing and having Greg go get Sam, because I wanted her to experience it.

Honestly, I think that whole experience had a lot to do with your interest in birth work.

I take credit for it anyway, for sure.

But then because he was so tiny, they sent him to the NICU, but I was the one that was having medical issues.

So she actually went with Joseph before I was, I mean, because they took him and, you know, as soon as he was born, he came out and went straight to the warmer and I went with him over to the warmer.

And I remember like holding his teeny tiny little hand that could barely wrap around my little pinky and he was so, so tiny.

Yeah.

Well, that is unheard of.

Like for people listening to this, 13 year olds don't get to go to the NICU.

No.

Like they just don't.

That is so beautiful.

And I love that like y'all didn't have to separate yourselves from him.

Like some of your family still got to be with him.

Ugh.

I spent my day with crying.

You guys are the worst.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was pretty, I was very happy that she didn't.

And to be honest, for the first several years of that child's life, Samantha was very definitely his second mom.

He was my baby.

He was.

Which I always figured was good birth control for a teenager.

It was.

It was for sure.

Yeah, I remember because you were on the magnesium for quite a while after you had him because your blood pressure was still so high.

And they wouldn't let him be in the room with you unless there was somebody else in there.

And I don't think they would have let this happen now.

I'm pretty sure a 13-year-old would not count as a supervising person, but I guess they decided I was mature enough or something because they let me stay at the hospital with her because my dad had to go home and take care of the other three children that are coming home to meet their brother.

And so I would stay at the hospital with her and help her with the baby and bring her over to her at night and stuff.

They really would barely let me hold him at all.

And I mean, like he could be in the room and I could look at him, but I couldn't move.

They wouldn't let me roll over.

They wouldn't let me do anything.

I knew we were on so many pain meds.

She was so high.

She was so high, y'all.

She was.

I remember when I got to the hospital, when she was in labor, my dad was like, I've got to tell you the story.

And he was like, she's been she's been talking to the nurses and telling them that the room is flooding because like the water was like running in the bathroom and the pipes and stuff.

And she would like start freaking out about it.

Like, no, the room is flooding.

The room is flooding.

I heard dripping water and I just was convinced that the room was flooding.

And the nurse, because the room was flooding, they were in the ocean.

The nurse was a pirate.

There was a parrot on her shoulder.

She was real concerned about that.

It was a whole thing.

So glad I got 13.

You were like, oh, I thought it was the best.

The problem to me now that I look at back on it is what were they?

What was I doing to that poor child that's inside of me and I'm still laboring with?

And I'm so high.

Oh, yeah.

And you had so many medication and so much because you delivered so fast.

I'm sure he had really I do remember that he had to give him a lot of help.

But in my mind, it was just because he was so little.

But it probably had a lot to do with the large amounts of IV medication.

Yeah, he's fine now, folks, it's good.

Yeah, he's good.

But it was it was very scary time for me.

And but I was I felt very excited that you got to be part of that.

So integral and in the event, I don't remember having any fear.

I just it was like, yeah, that's this is what's happening.

That's how babies come.

It's all good.

Yeah, because 13 year olds think they're invincible.

They're like, it's really fine.

My daughter was seven when she was in my birth and she was literally eating her Jimmy John's sandwich and chips running out into the little waiting room, getting a bite and coming back in.

Like, no big deal.

Just doesn't matter.

Just a baby.

Just birth.

Yeah, it's fine.

My sister did home births and she had her kids there for them and I could never have.

Yeah, I did a lot of things completely different from my sister with Samantha.

My sister had had on her first labor, she had had like some 30 something hours of labor and had done it at home.

So there was no medications and I was like, that ain't happening.

The pain starts and you're giving me an epidural.

That's all there is to it.

And so I was all about that.

But then even with her being induced and it all came so fast.

I mean, like I said, it was like nine o'clock at night when I went to the hospital that night and she was born by 730 in the morning, which for an epidural, I mean, that I mean, for a induced pregnancy, that labor, that was really very fast.

And so I kept thinking, well, that wasn't so bad.

I probably could have done that without an epidural, you know.

And so with the second one, it wasn't, I tried for a long time, but my body wasn't ready to pregnant to have a baby.

So it took a really, I mean, to me, it felt like forever, but it was probably 15 hours or something.

And, you know, and so I didn't do it.

So then when I got to that third one, I was like, I am not doing meds.

And then I was like, wow, why does everybody not do it this way?

This is the best way, you know?

Yeah.

So I will say, I was going to tell the story with Zach.

When at that time, the second baby, the second baby, sorry.

At that time, there was a lot, I mean, there was a lot of people that did not, the doctors and nurses weren't recognizing the importance of the mother-baby bonding.

And when Zach was born, my second child and also five weeks early or something, and he was also taken immediately to the NICU and I didn't get to hold him or touch him or anything.

They just took him immediately.

And I wasn't having health issues at the time.

So Greg had gone with him and they were, but they had him in oxygen and also under lights.

And they were like, he's not holding his body temperature.

And I was freezing.

I had like eight blankets on me and I was like shivering.

I was so cold.

And I remember once they said that his oxygen was starting to normalize.

And so they wanted to let me hold it because I all day long, I'm like, I want my baby, I want my baby, I want my baby.

And they were so they were finally going to let me hold him for a few minutes.

And they brought him wrapped up in like, you know, all these blankets.

And they said, do not unwrap him.

He needs to stay in these blankets.

And the nurse left the room and I unwrapped him and I just did skin to skin.

And his body temperature regulated, my body temperature regulated.

And when she came back, he was breathing normal.

He was, everything was so normal.

And I have a friend who's a labor and delivery nurse.

And she was like, that's so normal now.

Even if a child is early, they want you to do skin to skin.

And they want you to, because they recognized how that helps.

But you know, with Zach, it was like, take him to the NICU.

The NICU can help him more than anything else.

And he was only in the NICU for one day.

But it was about 12 hours before they let me have him.

The NICU for one day at 35 weeks is pretty impressive.

But, yeah, but I needed my baby.

Yeah, yeah.

It's crazy how our instincts just kind of know what's needed, that physiology and, I don't know, nature, I guess, nature of it.

Yeah, I believe, I very much believe in trusting your body because of my different experiences.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then, so how was postpartum with Joe with baby number five?

That one was difficult because I had so much going on.

With the others, I had nursed, and I nursed for a long time, like, you know, over a year with most of them.

And with Joe, I never really got my milk in because, for one thing, like she was saying, I was on the magnesium for five days after he was born, and they wouldn't let me hold him.

So, and they also didn't encourage pumping or anything.

And so, you know, five days later, I'm finally allowed to try to nurse this child.

And my milk never did come in, really.

And so I tried nursing him for about maybe four weeks or something, but he wasn't gaining weight.

And he was actually he had lost even more like they lose the weight when they first come home and then and then he didn't gain back up.

He stayed low and even lost a few more ounces.

And so I gave up and had to nurse him.

The postpartum was difficult with him because I was so busy with all of you.

And I had all these babies and all these children and all this activity going on.

And I was exhausted and I wasn't resting like I should have.

And it was more difficult than with the others.

Plus I was older, you know, the geriatric pregnancy at 38.

And so I just I remember telling somebody my OB was a woman and she was the same age as me.

And she was pregnant with her first child.

And I was like, I can feel the difference between pregnancy at 28 and pregnancy at 38.

And she's like, don't tell me that it's going to be hard.

And I was like, well, it may not be for you, but for me, my body was just like, I'm done with this.

And it is different, I think, too.

We've talked, I think we were talking about that the other day of like the difference.

Because we have a lot of clients who are, you know, advanced maternal age, geriatric pregnancy, whatever we're labeling it at, you know, for their first pregnancies.

And a lot of them do so well.

And you would never you would never know that they're, you know, a higher risk pregnancy.

But then we have others who are, you know, 36 and having their third baby.

And it's just so much harder on them.

And I do think a lot of it is, I'm sure, like the physical wear down of our body is taking care of children.

Mothering is hard.

But then also, just comparing, I think, probably, is probably a lot of it, too.

I think that it, like you said, for the first baby, you didn't show forever, because like your muscles are all still tight and everything, you know.

And then it's like, with our subsequent kids, it's like our belly pops faster, we show more easily.

And I think it is because it's like that muscle memory of our body.

But then also, I feel like the relaxing that goes through your body each time, just like, it's like a snowball.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, I know what to do.

Let me just do it.

And then it's a little bit more uncomfortable.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

I remember with Joe, too, in your postpartum, I don't think he was sleeping much at night.

He was difficult at night.

And so dad had to go to work so early in the mornings.

And so he would leave for work at like 6 a.m.

and you would feed Joe right before he left or dad would feed Joe, somebody would feed him.

And then you'd bring he'd bring him into me.

And Joe and I would have an hour or two in the morning before the rest of the kids woke up.

And that was my little my little mama time with him.

And it was so I remember, I remember that so clearly, because he would, you know, come and come snuggle with me in bed while I would read and then I take them downstairs and we'd do like breakfast or go sit outside by the pool.

And I was just living my very best teenage non mother motherhood life.

You were a birth doula and a postpartum doula, but you even knew it.

I was it was great.

It was very sweet though.

He was he was my baby.

My brother was born my dad and my stepmom had a kid when I was 14.

And I was like, bummed that I didn't get to be there.

You know, they lived in a different state and I would go visit and I got to visit the first Christmas he was born in December and I was there a few weeks later and I remember giving him a bath and I loved hanging out with him and I have pictures of us like holding hands in the car in the back seat of my dad's car.

And for a while he thought it was great.

And now, you know, I guess starting around 10, he was kind of over me.

We did move, we moved when he was maybe six and I really enjoyed, or maybe he was like three, and I enjoyed being around him at that point, but he kind of got over me.

And so I didn't get to have like that longevity of a relationship because the age gap was really hard and we never lived in the same house.

But you guys got to continue that and like to build on that.

And I just think that's so beautiful.

It was, yeah, it was sweet.

You're still very close.

Yeah, we are.

He's fun.

Our kids have been all over at your house playing and they had so much fun with him because he's like that young spirit still.

So how old is he now?

17.

He'll be 18 in a few months.

I can't believe it.

You're going to be out of your nest soon.

I can't believe it.

I used to want them to all come back.

Oh no, they are.

We're kind of in the return home thing.

I did that.

I was one.

I returned home for a little bit.

I fell out of my nest.

I went back.

It's a cycle.

It's a cycle.

Joe and I always have been very sweet.

I remember.

I mean, I don't even feel like I ever let you hold him when we were out in public.

He was mine.

I would carry him around with me at church.

Everybody thought he was my kid.

I remember one time we were going to, they were doing the love can wait thing with the teenagers and it ends with this ceremony where you promise that you won't have sex until you're married.

Right?

And so I walked into this ceremony and Samantha's carrying Joseph.

Yeah, I thought it was like a recommitment ceremony for me.

I just remember that.

Everyone didn't wait, but she's going to try again, guys.

Oh, Lord, yeah, it was, yeah, he was, he was always, always my guy.

And now he just loves my, my babies and he comes and hangs out with them.

Yeah, he's their, their absolute favorite.

So it's great.

That's so sweet.

Well, thank you so much for coming on and telling us about this.

This has been so neat to hear both of our mom's stories.

I just love it.

Yeah, this has been awesome.

Well, thank you all for joining us for this very wonderful Mother's Day episode.

And tune in soon to hear more about other things.

Tune in in a couple of weeks to hear the Father's Day episode.

Oh yeah, that one's going to be real stellar.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks.

Thank you for joining us on Birth, Baby.

Thanks again to Longing for Orpheus for our music.

You can look him up on Spotify.

Remember to leave a review, share and follow wherever you get your podcasts.

See you next week.