Birth, Baby!

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Welcome, this is Birth, Baby.

Your hosts are Ciarra Morgan and Samantha Kelly.

Ciarra is a Birth Dula, Hypnobirthing Educator, and Pediatric Sleep Consultant.

Samantha is a Birth Dula, Childbirth Educator, and Lactation Counselor.

Join us as we guide you through your options for your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum maturing.

Hey everybody, today we have with us Katie Phillips, who was actually one of Samantha and I's clients for doula care with her and her husband, Kyle, and they took our hypnobirthing classes and did all the things.

We had such an amazing experience with them.

So we invited Katie to be on today with us to tell a little bit about her story.

Thank you so much for being here, Katie.

Hi, it's good to be here.

Can you start us off by telling us a little bit about your journey to getting pregnant and what that was like for you?

Yeah, so me and my husband, Kyle, we started, we just welcomed our baby boy in October, and we started our fertility journey about five years ago.

And we tried to get pregnant the good old fashioned way by tracking ovulation and LH strips and all sorts of things.

And when that didn't work, we went to the doctor and said, hey, can you help us?

They ran a bunch of tests, and they made some of the tests seem like suggestions versus recommendations.

And so I felt like we lost a little bit of time because we didn't do all the tests upfront, and I wish we had.

So we determined that it was very, well, that it was gonna be impossible for us to get pregnant by ourselves.

And so we skipped some of the IEY.

We had previously done COVID for a couple of months before they had ran some more tests, and we jumped right to IVF with egg retrieval.

And so we had done our first IVF cycle right before COVID hit, and we were living in Oregon at the time, and we ended up getting embryos from the IVF, but none of them were viable after we did genetic testing.

And so we were faced with the decision that we had to destroy the embryos and then restart again.

And then our second round of IVF happened when COVID hit.

And if you guys remember, there was the PPE shortage.

So anything that was extra got postponed.

IVF is considered extra.

And then when I went through that cycle, I could cry, I just came out.

I had to do it all by myself.

I had to go to the doctor's appointments by myself.

I had to do everything except for the egg retrieval by myself because they wouldn't allow any extra people into the clinic because of COVID.

And so that one was very hard.

We had no viable embryos to test after round two.

And then the third one we did, and same thing, we had no viable embryos at the end of the third round.

We did that one here in Texas.

It honestly, real quick, kills me thinking about you being there by yourself because some people are fine with that.

But just my experience with you, and by the way, people, I was the one who was at her birth.

Just my experience with you is you are such a relational person that feeds so much off of the energy of those around you.

And so you're so comforted by presence.

And yeah, that breaks my heart.

So I think that that's totally fair.

And I think that that'll be, I'm sure there are a lot of people with stories similar to that because a lot of people had to do a lot alone.

We had moms going to their ultrasounds alone and wanting to video dad and they wouldn't even let people video to show and it's really hard.

So it's gonna be a lot of people's story in the future.

Yeah, and what's so crazy is that the COVID round, they in preparation for a successful embryo, which we ended up not having, but you always prepare for success.

They did a mock embryo transfer and I was having such a bad pain reaction with that VOV-A is goal response where you kind of start, where your nervous system kind of goes into that fight or flight.

I remember getting to the parking lot and being like, I'm done.

Like I physically cannot take one more ultrasound, one more poke, one more blood draw.

I was completely maxed out.

Of course, my husband is amazing and he came and he was like, we can choose to get off this at any time.

And I'm so glad we didn't because it was a little bit more of an uphill battle.

But after the third IVF round, the combination of the hormones, the IVF hit me pretty hard, emotionally and physically.

And I thought to myself, I don't know if I could do this one more time.

And so when we looked at my AMH and my follicle and all of those counts that they do during IVF, we decided that we were gonna go the route of a donor egg.

And so Kyle's sperm donor egg, and the emotional grief that we went through in making that decision was profound.

Because you're grieving the loss that you're not gonna have your own children, but they are your own children.

And there's a lot of new technology with 23andMe that expands the questions that you need to ask as a family of what that means to invite a donor egg into your family building.

And so we selected our donor.

We had multiple good embryos.

And so we were able to select an embryo and then do implantation, which we did.

I was going through my journal today, and a year ago today, we had a positive pregnancy test on February 2nd.

Oh my goodness.

It just made me cry.

So, and literally last year, so I wrote a positive pregnancy test, come on, baby Jack, you can do it.

And now he's in the other room, wilding out.

That's exactly right.

He's like sleeping right now.

And so that was, I think, the biggest and most profound thing is that getting pregnant, seeing that positive pregnancy test was, why we do all of this hard work.

And I'm so grateful that we didn't give up.

Yeah, that's amazing.

That's absolutely amazing.

So you saw that positive pregnancy test a year ago today.

What was it like from there?

What were the early days of pregnancy like for you?

Well, the joys of being an IVF patient and also being 41, you get to see the doctor a lot.

And so every morning I would do, in multiple times throughout the day, I would just do these prayers where I would just pretend like there's all this energy coming down, surrounding my embryo, my uterus, my body, and just say, please send all the light and energy and protect this baby and help him grow.

And I would always say, take anything you need, anything you need, make yourself at home here, because you do so many tests early on that I tried so hard to be stress free, but the truth is when you're in that doctor's office and it's cold and they're doing tests and you have nurses touching you all the time, it's a lot.

And we had never gotten good news with IVF.

And spoiler alert, he did take everything he needed.

He took maybe more than what he needed.

I know they do that.

It's like-

Also he was giant.

He was giant.

Mama gave him everything.

Everything.

I know that picture that you took when he first came out, I have looked at that picture like a hundred times.

Just his little hands, his little feet, actually he wasn't little, but all is healthy.

A little compared to now.

I know he just hit 16 pounds.

And so-

Four months old, right?

He's not even four months.

He'll be four months next week.

That's wild.

So when you're doing, you're going through all of that in the beginning of your pregnancy and you're doing all of these doctor appointments and scans and all of these things, how did you decide these are my birth goals?

Did you have specific birth goals starting out, what you wanted it to look like, or were you just like, whatever?

As long as I have a baby, I just don't care.

It's interesting, because I think that by the time they give you the green light at 20 weeks, that we're, you know, cause you see the baby, you hear the baby, but then you're not, I don't want to say you're not allowed to talk about it, but you're not supposed to get excited until it's 20 weeks.

That I don't think I worried about that until later.

And then all of a sudden it was like, okay, now the baby's got to come out.

Like the baby's here, now the baby has to come out.

And that's when we met you.

I spent so much time thinking about, let's just stay pregnant, let's just stay pregnant.

And then you're like, oh, wow, we never even thought about this whole other part that we're about to have to do.

Yeah, and along the way, because of my age, IVF, the baby was measuring large, and then there was some extra fluid, and then we had elevated, oh, what is that, AFP, oh gosh, it's like, so there was, there was some blood thing that was elevated that can sometimes indicate that something might be wrong with the baby.

We decided not to do an amniocintesis this after getting good ultrasounds back, but they see you more often after you have any sort of those complications.

And I just remember thinking to myself, just thinking the anxiety and worryings, I thank you so much that we have this science that wants to make sure that I'm healthy, that the baby's healthy, but we don't need you anymore, right?

And just kind of like trying to let that go.

But as we started to get ready for the holy cow, we have a due date and the baby is coming out.

One of the first conversations I had with you was, how do we get ready for this?

Because I was so maxed out and my body and mind were so taxed from blood draws and ultrasounds and going to the doctor and calling the doctor to be like, sorry, I have work, but really I didn't.

But you were at the doctor's office every single week.

And I'm like, and what are they looking for?

They're looking for something that's wrong, right?

Because they want to make sure that every time.

And so they're looking to make sure everything's right.

So it kind of, you're starting to condition yourself to like, is everything okay?

Instead of being like, everything's okay, but we're gonna trust but verify type of theme.

And so, it took a lot of reconditioning to get excited.

And I'm so grateful for you because I needed help to say, this is gonna be okay, because I did not believe that.

So how did you even decide, like what made, I don't even know the answer to the question truly, what made you know you wanted a doula?

Like how did you even find us?

What was that process like?

I, the one thing I've learned in my 42, because I just had my birthday, years of life, is to ask for help.

And I knew that I needed help through this birth because I was so taxed from the medical stuff that I just would shut down.

And I think you even saw it in some of the birthing classes, watched some of the videos.

I'm like, I was so overwhelmed by like, wait a second, I have to do all of this.

And, you know, some of the tests are painful, like it's, and they're worth it, but they are painful, right?

And so then you go, oh my God, we got to go back into this situation.

And I knew myself well enough to know that I already would kind of shut down.

So I knew that having someone that we trusted, that was an expert in birthing and saying, I don't have this, I need help, right?

And that was why we found you.

And we have these little Godshot moments where I was sharing that with somebody who had used you.

And I basically was like, this is what I want to find, this is what I'm looking for.

And they're like, you have to talk to Ciarra.

Like you have to.

And then by divine intervention, I got connected with you.

And it's amazing because I could not have imagined going through this whole thing without you.

And so you choose-

Thank you so much right now.

Don't usually cry on me.

But some of these experiences, all of them are special.

Some of them are extra special.

And I remember calling Samantha after one of our birthing classes.

So y'all, Katie and Kyle signed up for like almost everything we provide.

We need to talk.

They're like, yes, yes, yes, checkbox, checkbox, sign us up.

So they signed up for like all the things and they were living close enough, thank goodness, to be able to come in person, which was great.

And I remember the first class, they're talking about how giant their baby is already.

And I was like, oh my gosh, stop.

Because usually you guys, everyone listening, usually giant babies are not giant.

They're saying their baby's gonna be giant, but they're not.

And Katie and Kyle, can you tell us please, tall are you each?

I'm like 5'11 and Kyle's like 6'2, 6'3.

And donor egg lady is fairly tall.

Yeah.

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

So we're having a large baby.

And I remember you talking about it, and I'm thinking, well, well, your body is not tiny, friend.

You're a tall woman, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna be great.

So they also had a doctor that was not so naturally minded.

And I was thinking, this woman has been through so much.

There is no way we can just let people bully her around because of this big baby and use this as an excuse to intervene, intervene, intervene.

So I will say that I was like a little bit defensive from the start for you.

And we had classed, and I don't know if it was the first or the second class, but first of all, Kyle has resting man face, okay?

So ladies have RBF, Kyle has resting man face.

I was like, this man hates these classes.

And I remember going up to him, well, you guys came up to me on a break.

Actually, you walked out on a break.

I gave a potty break.

You walked outside and you had looked so overwhelmed.

The whole class, no one on YouTube was gonna see me doing this, but this is you during anything I was talking about.

She's protecting her body with her body.

She's making faces.

She's pushing herself away from me in her demeanor.

And I was like, oh, she is thinking I am the worst person ever.

I am terrorizing this woman, right?

So we go outside, I follow you out.

And Kyle's kinda talking you off a ledge.

And I was saying, I remember saying like, what is going on?

Am I upsetting you?

Cause I was like, I thought I was really just traumatizing you.

And you're like, no, I need to hear this.

It's just really hard to hear, but I need to hear this.

I have to expose myself because I know this about myself that I can't ignore it, have to face it head on.

And then you kind of, I already knew what you had been through a little bit, but you explained more.

And this was the first time I saw Kyle smile.

And I was like, oh, he is like so sweet.

He's human.

And I even mentioned that to him by the last class.

I was like, you do know that you're very intimidating when you're not like smiling.

He goes, people in work meetings always are asking me, is everything okay after the meeting?

And I'm like, yes, why?

Like, well, it's because you have that face.

So anyways, we started talking about your goals and I remember you saying, I don't want intervention.

I just want to do everything naturally, everything up until this point has been so medical.

I can't do it anymore.

I don't want anything medical.

If I, I don't even really want an IV, like I want as little as I can have.

And we decided of course to stay in a hospital birth because of the IVF and the, you know, potential large baby and you just felt safer there and great, but you're like, as little intervention as we can have, that's what I want.

And we went from that to really transforming.

So y'all finished the five classes.

At what point, because not everybody knows how this, what this outcome is, at what point did you kind of start changing your mind?

And did you worry that we would judge you?

Actually, I felt more judged by other people but not by you, because so many people were like, bodies are built for this, they're meant to come out.

And I had done some research, watched some videos, done kind of all the things of the business of being born, a couple of other things.

And I had a perinatal specialist, as well as an OB regular, and then had spoken to at Moon Tower prior to the birth.

And so I had kind of triangulated, but I did not share what any one of the doctors had shared with me.

I just said, tell me what you think based on what this information is, to kind of get the most honest assessment of what they thought for the birth piece, because they were all kind of, the consensus was that a week 39, so not going to 40 weeks, going to full term or later, was recommended.

And they had a couple of medical reasons for that.

And they basically said that after 40 weeks for older moms with high risk pregnancies, that there is a chance that for some reason, your body kind of just stops supporting the pregnancy and that something could happen to the baby.

Very small, but I heard that from two different sources, from two different doctors, two different offices, two different practices.

And the second I heard that, I thought to myself, this is no longer about me, this is about getting this baby out safely, even if there is the tiniest tiniest chance that anything could happen.

And then it went to, I will do whatever I can to protect the baby.

And then it was like, okay, well, we can induce you.

And I was so terrified, and terrified I don't even think is a strong enough word for a C-section, because we'll get to the prep that I did preparing for that outcome, that I was like, I can't fatigued, tired, on pitocin with an epidural, having been in the hospital for two days, laboring, go and have a C-section.

I will, on my best day, well rested, well fed, I felt ill prepared for a C-section.

I thought to myself under duress, I am not a good candidate for a C-section.

And that's where I basically said, okay, I'm gonna do a planned C-section if I do not go into labor naturally before.

And then basically skipped all of laboring, which was the opposite of everything we had been preparing for.

I skipped the opposite of no medical invention and essentially had an appointment, which there was a part of me that was like, this feels so wrong, I know I could do it.

And then I thought to myself, I know I could do it, but I'm gonna remove all risks to protect the baby.

And that became the most important thing because even though the terror I felt with the idea of having them open my stomach while awake with this cloth up, and I wanna share what happened with Ciarra in the room.

But taking that control back and just saying, okay, we're gonna have a planned C-section if we don't go into labor.

And I thought there was actually a chance that I might go into labor because I was having Brax and Hicks, and I remember calling Ciarra being like, I think I'm having like labor pains and like I'm having a heart, you know.

And she's like, where are you?

And I was like, I'm with some friends eating some dinner.

And she's like, why?

I'm like, because I am so uncomfortable and I could either be really uncomfortable alone at home or I could be uncomfortable with tacos and I choose tacos.

Full agree, honestly.

I mean, when in doubt.

I think that too, for you, like you had gone through this whole fertility experience where everything was so far out of your control.

And then you had this early, you know, experience at the beginning of your pregnancy where it was like you were going in and they were looking for everything that could be wrong and all of it's out of your control.

So taking that power back and choosing how you were going to go into birth rather than starting with an induction and with the risk factors that you had, you were at a significantly higher risk of needing a cesarean in the middle of an induction than our average induction would be.

So taking that power back was a big part of your experience and you being empowered as a mother and as a woman, truly.

Well, and it helped put me at ease because I thought to myself like, you know, I knew that if I went a C-section route, it would be harder on my body in some ways, but it was controlled.

Like we had a great team at St.

David's.

They did an amazing job.

Moon Tower did an amazing job complimenting that along the way.

Ciarra, I will be forever grateful for that.

Does it make you giggle just a little bit that we went from a very high intervention, C-section heavy doctor over to a midwifery practice and then chose the C-section?

Yeah.

Our experience was amazing because of it.

I want to rewind for just one second.

I do remember having a conversation with you after, I think it was after class one day, or maybe we just had an extra phone call.

And you didn't need permission necessarily, but as humans, like we do sometimes just need that word from another person that they agree.

And I said out loud, you know, you don't have to be induced.

You could just choose C-section if you want to.

And I don't know if you had considered it before, but it was like, oh, well, I guess I could just notch, like just throw that option out the window of induction.

And for someone who had been through so much medical stuff to get pregnant, and then had a fairly good pregnancy, you did really beautifully, to then go through an induction of all this medical stuff again.

And you were like, I mean, y'all, I just talked about what a cervical exam is like in a very gentle way.

And you should have seen her body language in class.

Like that was as if someone, she looked as if someone was assaulting her body without touching her.

And it was like, that would be so traumatic.

That's not fair.

And people who don't think of a doula or a hypno-birthday educator as someone who's gonna go encourage someone to sign up for a cesarean.

But what we do as doulas is we encourage people to do what is best for them.

And mental health-wise, the lack of...

If you had had to go through an induction and had this long drawn out process, even if it ended in a vaginal birth, you would be depleted because of how traumatic it would have been to your body and your mind to experience just the regular induction stuff.

We talked about natural methods, like a Foley bulb or whatever.

I mean, that sounded to you like you may just chop off my leg, why don't you?

And so switching over, I remember at one point, I think I mentioned it before too, but then again, I really think talking to a therapist would really help.

You're like, I have so many appointments already, Ciarra.

How am I supposed to fit this in?

And I was like, well, do it or don't, but I think it would help.

So would you want to touch real quick on like the therapy aspect as much as you'd like to on if that was helpful or for you?

Yeah.

No, I, you made the recommendation a couple of times and I was like, I literally think I said that.

I was like, I have so many doctor's appointments.

I mean, in some, in the third trimester, I was seeing the perinatal specialist one week, the OB the next week.

I mean, and it was, and I just remember thinking to myself, like, what's our goal for this appointment to the doctor?

And they're like, well, we just need to make sure you're on track, right?

And then I'm like, okay, we're gonna find a therapist.

I'm like, don't you know how tough I am, right?

But going back to the knowing you need to ask for help, you know, both Ciarra and my husband Kyle were like, you are abnormally stressed about the baby exit, whatever that may look like.

And so Cheryl was amazing.

And not only did we get to talk through it, but to say, what am I actually afraid of?

And, you know, talking through some of those fears of like, I should be strong enough.

I should be, you know, in a position where I can safely carry or deliver this baby and be fearless about it.

And it was like, why?

Why do I believe those things?

Like, it's okay to be afraid.

And then we got to talk through the actual, you know, C-section process, which I was terrified about, and could not have gotten through if you weren't there standing next to me.

I mean, like, could not.

And so-

Either could Kyle.

We'll go into that later.

Yeah, right?

Yeah, you are 100% correct.

And, but visualizing that, and then again, you know, to Samantha's point of like taking back that control from something that felt completely out of control.

And Cheryl would say, visualize the baby coming out.

And I would sit there and I'd be like, okay, they're wheeling me in, I'm sitting on the table.

Okay, this is happening.

I hear the baby cry.

And then I would get interrupted to be like, oh my God, this is too much.

And then it'd be like, okay, again.

And then Cheryl would just say, just keep doing those visualizations over and over again.

And slowly but surely I was like, okay, this is gonna happen.

And I wanna know all the information, but an average C-section lasts about 41 minutes.

So I was like, no matter what, the time will pass.

So I just kept visualizing it.

And sure enough, it was just enough to get me over the hump to give me permission to be like, I don't have to be okay all the time.

It's okay that I am not okay.

Like whether it's pre C-section, in the delivery recovery room or postpartum, you know, this is a tough thing all around.

And for some reason, I needed to be reminded of that multiple times.

I didn't tell Samantha, I don't know.

Well, maybe I did, but I don't remember.

You just said the 41 minute thing.

Do you want to tell everybody what you told the doctor when we were in there?

Do you remember?

What, tell me.

I think you said, so we looked it up, and the average Caesarian is 41 minutes.

And I'm just wondering, how long do you think this will be?

Or something like that.

And the doctor was like, 41 minutes, huh?

And they're like, yeah.

And she looked over and she goes, what time did we start?

To somebody.

And they told her and she's like, challenge accepted.

Oh my gosh.

I know, and I think she finished in like, I want to say it was like 37 or something.

It was really close to that 41.

And she was like, she was so excited about it.

And of course she did a great job.

It wasn't like she was rushing.

But I think that those little things were kind of grounding during that.

Like we found other things to focus on so that we weren't only thinking about the actual procedure.

I love that.

That's amazing.

Well, and that's what Cheryl said.

Cheryl's like, you can get through anything kind of one small piece at a time, one bite at a time.

And she's like, whatever helps you, that's what you need to focus on.

And so prior to going into the C section, it was suggested to have like a playlist.

So I literally curated the 10 or 15 songs that I wanted to listen to.

In that preparation of even making a playlist, it was like, okay, what do I want to listen to while this is happening?

What is going to kind of bring me kind of a sense of kind of grounding and peace and calm?

And every time I'd kind of build that playlist, it would just be like, okay, I'm visualizing success.

And Cheryl just kept reminding me, she's like, it's all going to go right.

Why don't we have faith in the doctors?

And I'm like, more on that later, right?

I'm just kidding.

But, because we have a healthy baby boy, so it all worked out.

But it was a lot, right?

So she was like, instead of focusing on things that could go wrong, focus on the things that could go right.

And that's exactly what happened.

And so, and I don't even remember really listening to the music when we were in there, because it happened so quickly.

But I am so glad that I did the preparation ahead of the C-section, because I walked in there more confidently.

Because when we got in, Kyle almost passed out.

And so they're like, can you bring the doula in?

Because they would only let one person in prior to the, when they were doing the spinal.

So Ciarra came running in and you literally held me while they put that needle in my back.

And then we lay down, they wheeled Kyle back in.

And wheeled Kyle back in.

You guys, from my perspective, I was in the hallway.

I'm sitting like kind of far down the hallway, because there weren't really any chairs right out, like near your room.

And I see the anesthesiologist run out, and he's like waving to me way down the hall.

And I was like, oh, she's not calm.

Okay, like I was thinking, they're just gonna let both of us in, because her anxiety is so high.

Maybe Kyle can't calm her, and she's saying she needs me.

I don't know, like Kyle's great.

I don't know why he wouldn't be able to, but maybe she just needs me.

And as I get closer, he goes, no, no, dad's not doing well.

He can't handle it.

And I was like, what do you mean?

And then they wheel Kyle out.

He is white.

Y'all, she said he's 6'3.

This man who is a presence was white and weak.

Yep.

He had a little vomit bag.

He had a vomit bag, and he's already in his bunny suit, which is like that, that's what I call it, the white getup for being in a C-section.

And they wheel him out, and I'm trying not to laugh because we all had a really great relationship at this point.

Like he wouldn't have been mad that I'm laughing at him, but I go in and I'm holding her, and he had told us beforehand, it's not the actual surgery, it's the smell of the sterile fluid.

So the moment they started cleaning her back to do an epithelial spinal, he was out, stunt.

So yeah, they wheeled him back in, and as they wheeled him back in, I'm sitting next to Katie and I say, hey, how was your C-section to Kyle?

Like as if he had just undergone a procedure.

He did really great once we were in there.

He just, he sat and his color slowly returned.

But he sat the whole time.

Yep, yep, until the baby came out.

But what's amazing is that having you there was just like, okay, this is gonna happen.

Okay, this is gonna happen.

And we kind of got to walk through that whole procedure together.

And then if I remember correctly, I think that we had told them that Kyle wanted to cut the umbilical cord, but I don't think he did.

Am I remembering that correctly?

I think they did.

Probably.

It's unusual for doctors to have us...

Actually, I think I only know one doctor that lets people cut the umbilical cord from over the line, and it's the most heavy intervention doctor.

I think it's because she does so many C-sections.

She's like...

But usually it's like a risk of infection or whatever.

They don't want to cross that line of the surgical site or whatever.

But sometimes they leave it a little bit longer so that the dad can trim it.

But no, I don't think so.

And honestly, I don't know if Kyle would have wanted to once when we're in there.

What's so crazy is that I did not want to see anything.

And then the second I heard that cry, everything that you guys had said absolutely happened were basically the cry and your instincts kick in and override any fear that you have, period.

And then I was just like, I want to see my baby.

And then of course, they're still working on getting him to come over to the other side.

But it was amazing how quick that happened the second I heard that cry.

And then the pictures that you took for someone who is woozy about surgery, I am so proud of myself.

And that one where baby Jack is coming out, I'm like, if someone wants to see it, I'm like, do you want to see a picture of when he was born?

And they're like, yeah, I'm like, no, like the picture of when he was born.

Like I am so proud of myself.

And the fact that you were there to take those pictures is like, I feel like this moment of like, it all came together perfectly.

It all happened exactly the way it was supposed to.

And then we were in the recovery room by I think four, right, when we were in that room.

It was fast.

I mean, it's like an hour from start to finish, really.

Have you seen the picture she's talking about, Samantha?

I was just thinking, I don't know if I have, and I need to see this, because that's one of the reasons.

I'm not the only photographer.

Katie, I'm not promising anything to anybody, but sometimes I get some good pictures.

But Katie reached for the blue drape.

Like her instinct kicked in so hard to see Jack that I have a picture of her reaching and pulling down the blue and trying to pull her upper body up because she wanted to see her baby.

It was so crazy.

That's so amazing.

Yeah, she was so adamant about seeing nothing and then did not care.

Everything else around her was a blur.

So yeah, I got the pictures of the moment he came out of the belly.

That's so great.

I love that.

And I'm sure Anastasia and everybody's like, don't touch the blue.

It's the number one rule of the OR.

They're like, don't touch the blue.

Really?

I must miss that instruction in the pre-op.

I heard what you wanted to hear.

I love it.

That's so amazing.

So you had that moment where he was born and you heard him, you saw him, and then what happened?

And then they took a little baby and then everybody deserted me when they went to look at the baby.

No, I'm just kidding.

But Ciarra and Kyle, they went over to weigh the baby, wrap him up, they bring him over, and it felt like an eternity.

And then quite literally, they put him on you when you have a C-section and they kind of like to lean him up against you, but you're at this kind of weird angle and you can kind of move your arms, but you're almost like, don't leave me with this baby because you don't trust that your arms are going to hold him because of all the medicine in your body.

But what's amazing is that they sewed everything up, Kyle got to hold him, you were taking pictures.

And then before you know it, you're basically back in the recovery room.

And then it's over.

I mean, like the birth is over, but then you have your tiny baby.

And then we tried to start breastfeeding and it went perfectly, like everything happened naturally.

And then it's as if you don't know your world before that moment, like the way that it has totally changed.

And then you think to yourself, that was not that hard.

I could do that again, right?

You're like, that was, what was I so worried about?

The magic of the mind, you know, the magic of the mind making you like, oh, that was no big deal, it's fine.

Yeah, and then you have like this perfect little baby.

And then you look back, but because I was not induced, I mean, and we did a Plan C section, one of the nice things was, is that we, I mean, I still had on like mascara.

You get the good pictures.

Well, and it was, and it's not like that it's important, but I mean, it just, I was in the best place I could be to start that motherhood journey on that day for that recovery piece.

And so that was the piece that I don't know what the other outcomes would have been, but I know that that outcome was the best that I could have from all of my selections available to me.

I love it.

That's, I mean, it's huge, it's huge.

And obviously, you know, every birth is gonna look different.

Every person's situation is going to look different.

But I think it is really powerful to speak into just being able to make that choice for yourself and it working so beautifully for you and your family.

And informed consent is so important.

We say it all the time, but it's not fair if you don't know all of your options.

And sometimes the best option for someone is having a planned cesarean so that they're in a mental space that is the healthiest for them.

And I will tell you, leaving you after you had your baby and then we stayed postpartum a little bit, I felt so happy and comfortable for you and like at peace leaving you because you were not depleted.

You finally, you like if anyone deserved to not feel depleted, ugh, I'm getting emotional.

You just freaking deserved to go into motherhood fresh and you did.

And do you think, well, we haven't asked how your postpartum is, but that would be my next question.

Like, what was your postpartum compared to your fertility journey, your pregnancy journey going into a cesarean?

Like, how did it connect?

What's interesting is that the first couple of days that you're at the hospital post, I remember saying to the nurse, hey, I'm a little bit uncomfortable.

Can I have some more pain medication, basically something?

And she goes, oh, you have not had any pain medication.

I think in like 12 or 16 hours.

And I said, what have you been giving me?

Right?

When they come in and they're just like ibuprofen, and then they give you a cough suppressant.

So for your abdomen, so that you don't cough and they found that that helps.

But I was so surprised that, you know, I think I took the most minimal amount of pain medication, you know, per day.

And the ibuprofen and the cough suppressant was enough.

And I was, that was one of the things that I was the most scared about was, I do not want to be under the influence of anything from having major abdominal surgery and then trying to care for this little one.

And whether it was hormones or either way that your body reacts or the fact that a C-section wasn't that bad, you know, it was not that bad.

Like I remember thinking to myself, like if I had known this to be the outcome, I would not have needed to be worried.

And so, and then the postpartum, like once we got home, I was one of those people that bled quite heavily almost for six weeks, to the point where I had to go into see Dr.

Jessica Goode and just basically double check that.

And it was like, if it doesn't stop, we might have to do an ultrasound to make sure that there was no placenta left.

Cause it was just like, it just was nonstop.

And I look back now and I'm like, I'm not saying that I didn't care, but I'm like, oh yeah, that happened.

But I mean, but it was literally this like nonstop thing.

And then except for the fact that being so tired is really hard, I was fully prepared for some huge emotional swings.

And I'm not saying that there haven't been swings, but it was nothing compared to what I had experienced with IVF.

And I was so grateful for that.

And what did you, I know you did some things to prepare for postpartum, you know, in anticipation of feeling these big feelings that you thought you might have.

What did you do to prepare for that postpartum time?

A ton of writing, a ton of talking through.

And, you know, one of the things I'll say to my husband over the last couple of months after he had the baby is like, you just start to feel so overwhelmed sometimes with the most mundane things where you're like, there's bottles and there's laundry.

And then you're like, okay, I am so grateful that I got everything that I prayed for, but I also need to emotionally regulate, which means that I just need to sit for a second.

Because I just felt so overwhelmed.

It was like almost paralyzing and then it would pass.

But knowing that it was coming, I think was one of the best things because when it comes, you go, okay, this isn't going to last forever.

This feels bigger than it really is.

But a lot of the work that Chell and I did was writing out, what am I afraid of?

I'm afraid that I'm going to be preoccupied with anxiety or depression that I won't enjoy those first days, months with the baby.

I'm afraid of this.

And just kept writing it down and kept just saying, I'm going to release this.

I'm going to write it and kind of release it.

And I'm okay with not being perfect.

But Cheryl and I did a lot of work up, what will it mean if I have postpartum depression or anxiety?

And after the third IVF cycle, I was like, I can't do that again.

I was like, that was like a sadness I could not describe or wish upon anybody.

And I was like, I can't do that again.

And then like, oh my God, is this what birth is going to be like?

And I'm like, maybe, I mean like maybe, because our bodies react to a certain way.

So I have been, I am so grateful that it was not as bad as I thought.

And fingers crossed, I just started losing my hair, my chunks of my hair.

That's new.

Welcome to motherhood.

So like washing my hair in the morning and I'm like, wow, that's quite a bit of hair.

I'm like, but the taxi nature of the postpartum piece is all worth it.

And I think that people have said that in their own words many times over that no matter how hard it is, they would do it all over again.

And that is the one thing that I have found to be 1000% true.

Where like, even though the alarm goes off to Palmport to feed the baby at one o'clock in the morning, and there was one night, I think my alarm went off and I think I just started crying.

My husband is like, are you sad?

And I'm like, no, I am just so tired.

I am just, physically, I've got nothing left in my tank.

I'm so tired.

And then you pump and then you try to go back to sleep and the baby wakes up and you're like, and then it's all good.

Like it just kind of all works itself out.

I think it's something you're so...

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

I was just gonna say, it's just a weird dichotomy of having those intense feelings, but then you're also like, but I'll keep doing it because I get this little person to look at and it's awful, but I love it and it's amazing.

I think that something you were so good at, Katie, was all of the things you spoke into existence that like, or you spoke truth on of how you were feeling and what you were worried about, you did such a great job of rolling with the punches as they came.

And if that's what I hope anybody can get out of this is like the time that you would take for yourself and that you do sit and you do give yourself that space.

You remember coming and doing your postpartum follow-up visit and all mamas are just thrilled with their babies and they're happy.

Not the level of joy, even though you were so tired, like you were like, look at him.

Just look at him.

Like being able to look at him on the outside after you just prayed for this little being for so long, just look at him.

And also guys, he looks just like her husband.

It's a hundred percent her husband.

Like nobody else is involved.

But your ability to appreciate so deeply, even the hard moments, because you're like, I prayed for these hard moments.

This is exactly what I was wanting, have been, I think that has served you so well and that your brain is able to just like switch over to that.

Motherhood sure does look good on you.

And I get so emotional about you just because of the journey that you've been on and like the roller coaster I've seen you on, you know, of, oh, we think now we're going to do this.

Okay, nope, hit it, hit it, change plan, you know.

And you guys, I was at a little networking meeting in our area and Katie just so happens to live in my area.

I was at a networking meeting and about five minutes after it started, people are still kind of doing their introductions.

I look back because somebody's walking in.

And of course, anybody holding a baby, everyone stares at the baby.

But I looked up and I saw your face and I just started crying.

Like I had no idea you were going to be at this networking meeting, but I like was so overwhelmed.

And the bond that Madula and their families that they work with can have is kind of just indescribable.

It really is so cool.

And I'm just so thankful to have been, I know you've mentioned me a lot in this, but everyone, it's just only because she did classes with me and Samantha was also her doula, but I was the one who went.

So just us being able to see you on this journey is just, I feel so blessed to have been on it.

Well, the passing of knowledge from like one woman to the next has been the biggest surprise gift in all of this, because the number of people who said, I did this, this worked for me, this was my experience.

There's a connection piece that is so profound.

And I truly believe that I would have been okay no matter what, whether or not we were successful having kids, that God was gonna take care of me no matter what.

But this is so much, this is better, this is so much better.

And I don't know what the other one is anymore because now I'm a mama, but the connection to other women and the journey and the passing along information was like truly, truly, truly profound.

And the relationships that we got to create along the way as a result of that is amazing.

And I could not have imagined going through this journey without you, all of the support that you gave, Kyle and I transformed our marriage, it transformed the beginning of our family before he got here.

And now that he's here, we were so much better for it because of you.

I mean, truly.

So we are forever grateful for you.

Well, you're stuck with me forever.

So on to her life.

Well, we're so thankful that you came on and told this story.

I would love to have you back sometime to talk about fertility because we just know that you're such a wealth of knowledge, just like with tips and tricks and things that you wish you had known.

But thank you for being here.

And we just wish your family all of the best and send our love.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Thank you for joining us on Birth, Baby!

Thanks again to Longing for Orpheus for our music.

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