Birth, Baby!

Welcome, this is Birth, Baby.

Your hosts are Ciarra Morgan and Samantha Kelly.

Ciarra is a birth doula, hypnobirthing educator, and pediatric sleep consultant.

Samantha is a birth doula, childbirth educator, and lactation counselor.

Join us as we guide you through your options for your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey.

Today I'm here with Andrea.

She's a mother of two, and had her second baby with me as her doula.

Sam's not with us today, but it's just going to be me and Andrea.

She's here to share her birth stories with us.

So Andrea, I've got to start with one of the things that I remember most about when we first started working together, and this was when I was a solo doula, y'all.

I was not with Samantha yet as a partner.

One of the first things I remember is you telling me that you wanted to be back, and that you wanted to one day be on the VBAC link.

I remember saying, if I ever have a podcast, you can be on my podcast.

So when I started this podcast, I was like, I already know who my VBAC episode's going to be with, I already know it.

So I'm so excited to have you here with me today, and I'd love if you just want to give me kind of a little intro about who you are, and your little family, and how old your kiddos are.

Awesome, thank you so much for having me on, Ciarra.

I'm Andrea, I am a mom of two.

My daughter Ava is six, and Nico is three.

Ava's my birth trauma baby, and Nico is my VBAC baby.

I love that, and she was like, y'all, she might be a birth trauma baby, but that girl is amazing.

Like, it does not matter how she was born, because she rocks.

I actually taught hypnobirthing classes to Andrea and her husband in their home when she was pregnant with Nico.

And little miss Ava was there for some of those, and she would just like nap like a champ in the next room, and then she'd come out and just sit on her mom's lap and listen to us talk about birth.

And I was just always so impressed with her.

She's amazing.

I always say it was like, yeah, I always say it's like opposite, because Ava, like she had just this crazy birth, this very traumatic birth, but she was like just such a great baby.

It's like I brought home a baby doll and she was just so great.

And then Nico, I have this amazing textbook, magical VBAC, and he's like a little tornado.

You know what?

I think that you just get what you're supposed to get, and you needed to be peaceful because you just could not have handled a tornado after the birth with her, and people will understand why in a second.

And then Nico was like, oh, you had an easy time?

Well, I'm about to show you.

Oh yeah, he rocked my world, but that's my little guy.

I love it so much.

Okay, so if you want to just kind of tell us about your first baby, like how your journey was getting pregnant, what the early days of pregnancy were like for you.

So with Ava, I had a very textbook pregnancy.

Everything was very straightforward.

I did not experience any morning sickness.

Yeah, it was just a very straightforward pregnancy with her.

And then what about your pregnancy with Nico?

Was it pretty straightforward or did you feel like it was different?

With Nico, I felt like it was a pretty good pregnancy.

It was straightforward as well.

I had one episode when I was around 15 weeks pregnant of bleeding, but it turned out just to be, thank goodness, a cervical polyp.

But other than that, it was a very uneventful pregnancy with him.

Yeah, I feel like you were super healthy.

And I remember being really excited about that because the less issues you have medically, the higher your likelihood is that you're going to have a VBAC.

So I remember some of the things that we really worked through at the beginning of our relationship together was talking through some of that birth trauma that you had with Ava and kind of how to avoid that this time.

But I was really impressed because you had already done so much legwork about what you wanted to do and what you didn't want to do, and then just kind of used hypnobirthing with me to get there.

So what was your, you know, kind of, what did you do to prepare, I know what you did to prepare for birth with Nico.

What did you do to prepare for birth with Ava?

Absolutely nothing.

And looking back, I'm like, wow, I can't believe I did nothing.

But I mean, I just didn't know better.

I really leaned on my OB and I later learned that I should have done a lot of legwork and a lot of research and I just did not do that with my first pregnancy.

Yeah.

And you had her in a different state, right?

Correct.

I had her at the time we were living in the Chicagoland area.

Yeah.

And then we're in Austin.

Most people know that after listening to a million of our episodes already.

But we did have Nico in a hospital here in the Austin area.

And people in this area, there are not a lot of options in terms of midwifery care in the hospital, which actually that's about to change.

And I already have somebody coming on to an episode to explain to us this new, crazy option we're having in Austin that shouldn't be so crazy.

But at that time, you couldn't have midwifery care guaranteed to you in the hospital setting.

But we kind of got that anyway, and we'll come back to that.

So what was your birth experience like with Ava?

Kind of like, what did it start with?

Spontaneous labor, induction?

What was it like?

I was induced at 40 weeks and five days with Pitocin.

And I'm going to ask you why.

From what I remember, my OB wanted to induce me.

I don't think there was a real reason other than that I was just past my due date.

Looking back once again, knowing what I would know now, I would have never agreed to that.

But I think I was just so anxious to get her out.

My OB wanted to induce.

I jumped for joy.

Yeah, you were ready to meet your baby, right?

I was.

I was so ready to meet her.

Yeah, so I she started Pitocin and do you want me to get into the birth story right now?

Yeah.

Tell us about it.

So yeah, I went in on a Monday and I was already three centimeters dilated.

That's very unusual for a first time mom, by the way.

Yeah, I was 40 and five.

I went in, got induced with Pitocin.

I think it was around maybe like one o'clock in the afternoon by maybe 11 p.m.

or 12 midnight.

She broke my water.

I did get the epidural right away.

Right away.

I've been like right when they started Pitocin.

Yeah, maybe a few hours post Pitocin.

That's something that my provider suggested that I do.

And I listened once again, looking back, knowing what I know now, I would have never done that.

Yeah, that's very similar to Samantha, actually.

I don't know if you've listened to her birth story, but her provider would just suggest things.

Then she's like, okay, okay, sounds good.

You know, and she's like, I just didn't know any better.

Exactly.

I did not know better.

So yeah, I couldn't sleep on night.

I toss and turn.

My provider came in house at 5 a.m.

She checked me.

I was only six centimeters dilated.

At this point, it had been maybe a little over 20 hours in labor, I think.

I'm doing that math correctly.

So she's like, honey, we're going to have to do a C-section.

And I, like my heart dropped because a C-section was never on my radar.

I had just such a great pregnancy.

Why would I need a C-section?

I kind of had that mentality.

Like I, like she's telling me in that moment, I basically begged her, no, I don't want a C-section.

She kind of bullied me into it.

And she let me try to labor a little bit before she came back to check up on me again.

And my nurse, she got the peanut ball, tried to put me in all kinds of different positions, but I was just so dumb because of that epidural.

Nothing worked.

I was still at a six centimeters.

She takes me back for the cesarean, and I am just so scared, so scared because I was not expecting that, especially after being in labor for so long.

And I know that that epidural failed because I felt everything.

I felt everything on that table, and it was just terrible.

It was terrible.

And I always hear from women about that moment.

You see your baby, all the pain goes away.

I'm like, that is a fairy tale because when my husband came to the head of the operating table holding Ava, I remember I didn't even want to look at her.

It was just that bad.

So-

And nothing was wrong with you, right, when she said that you needed a cesarean.

Your health was fine.

Ava's health was fine.

It was just like you timed out, in her opinion.

Exactly.

I failed to progress.

Yeah, she told me that this is not an emergency C-section.

Ava's heart rate was looking great.

I was doing great.

My vitals were great.

So it was not an emergency by any means.

So I get to recovery and I can circle back to this part.

And, you know, the whole time, my OB was very rushed looking back.

And I didn't really know why.

So I have Ava in recovery.

I'm trying to nurse her.

My OB comes sprinting to me at my bedside.

She's like, honey, I'm going out of town.

I will be back on Monday.

So-and-so is going to take over.

This doctor or whatever is going to take over from here.

I'm like, okay, she left.

Like, okay.

So all of the rushing that you were experiencing, you might've thought like, oh, something's wrong with me or Ava.

So we've really got to do the C-section.

Like I'm out of choices.

But really it was that she was running out of time to do what she had scheduled.

Exactly.

Exactly.

So I end up getting discharged, I think about five days later, four to five days later, if I remember correctly.

And I remember when I got home, I felt like I was just in a lot of pain.

But then I kept telling myself, I'm like, you just had a C-section, it's going to be like this.

I basically told myself you need to suck it up.

Fine.

So then a few more days go by, and I'm just not doing up good.

Like I'm just not doing good.

I remember I would take my temperature and my temp was fine.

It was fine.

It got to the point.

I just don't feel good.

I'm in so much pain.

So I called my OB's office and I told them, is there any way I can be seen?

I'm just not doing well.

I'm in a lot of pain.

I'm just not feeling, something's off.

I'm basically telling them that.

And I don't know if it's because I'm a new mom or I'm just so sleep deprived.

I felt like I couldn't really express myself to them.

The nurse on the line basically told me, honey, you just had a C-section.

You're going to be in pain.

I said, okay.

So I chucked it up and I said to myself, I just need to like, just keep it pushing.

Like I just need to give it a few more days, maybe a few more weeks, and I will start feeling a little more normal.

Can I ask what were your symptoms when you're saying you didn't feel good?

I felt like I had-

It was pain and I felt like I was running a fever.

It's so, and it's odd to me to this day because I remember being at home and checking my temperature.

It's a thermometer.

It doesn't lie.

Like, why do I feel like I have a fever?

My temperature was like, what, 98.6 or something of that nature.

I didn't have a temperature at all, you know?

So for some reason, my OB's office calls me back that day and they're like, hey, you know, why don't you come in to be seen?

I said, okay, I don't know what possessed them to call me back, but they did call me back.

I see my provider, she checks my vitals, and basically she told me the exact same thing.

The nurse told me, you just had a C-section, you're going to feel this way.

Give yourself a couple of days.

Give yourself some time.

And you're thinking, yeah, and you're thinking, oh, sure, I just like trekked on in here with this body that doesn't feel good, with a newborn baby, just to be told what I've already been told at home.

Like, how discouraging.

Yeah, it was terrible.

So I'm thinking, like, I just really need to get it together.

Like, I don't know.

So at the time, I think I was around, Abel was around eight days old.

So maybe this is like the next day after that, after I saw my OB, my husband and I are working in shifts.

I'm trying to take a nap.

He typically goes to bed around midnight, one o'clock.

Then I wake up and take over the baby.

So he wakes me up.

I'm sleeping.

He wakes me up.

It's probably around one a.m.

He's like, hey, it's your turn.

Okay, so I go to the bathroom and I pull down my pajama, my pajama pants, and I hear it.

I hear, pssh.

My incision site ruptured, and I'm talking blood, pus.

It was foul smelling.

The little rug for the shower, it was drenched in just blood and pus, and I'm grabbing a towel from the bathroom, and I'm trying to put it on my incision site, and that towel is just getting drenched.

I'm trying to call my husband.

He already fell asleep.

So he comes in, he wakes up, he sees me.

I don't want to get anything on the carpet, you know?

So I stood in the bathroom, and he's like, whoa, what's happening?

You know, he's freaking out.

At this point, it's, you know, 1, 1.30 in the morning.

My mother-in-law comes over to watch Ava.

My husband rushes me to the ER.

Right away, they do a blood panel, and my white blood cell count is through the roof.

I am battling a nasty infection.

Yes.

Yeah.

When you went to the OB, and they called you in and you went in during the day, did anyone look at your incision site?

Yes, my OB did look at my incision site, and she told me it looked great.

Wow.

Yes.

Was it red or hot or anything?

I really did look at it, but she told me it looked great.

Like I said, the only thing she did was check my vitals.

She did not run any blood work.

So that means taking my temperature, my blood pressure.

So yeah, I-

It's crazy that you could have an infection that intense with that crazy of a white blood cell count and no fever.

It's insane.

Insane.

So I was not planning on getting readmitted when I first went to the hospital.

I end up getting readmitted, and they put me on a regular floor, and I am bawling my eyes out because they're telling me my newborn cannot be on the floor with me.

Like I'm nursing her, she's only a few days old.

So my OB gets in house around five o'clock, and once again, she's rushing in.

She's like, oh my goodness, honey, I'm so surprised that you have an infection.

You weren't even running a fever yesterday.

So I'm crying to her, telling her, like they won't let me have my newborn here.

And this is how I know she knew she like made a mistake because I just see her run into the hallway and she's yelling up and down the hallway.

She's like, get my patient back on postpartum.

Why is she on this floor?

Why did you admit her on this floor?

Her infant needs to be on this, in postpartum with her.

Well, she did one thing right then.

Yes, so thankfully I ended up back on postpartum.

So Ava was able to stay with me.

I was readmitted for about a week on IV antibiotics.

My wound had to be packed.

I got discharged.

My husband continued to pack my wound at home and I ended up on wound back therapy.

So I had to go to a wound clinic three times a week and it took me four and a half months to get off bed rest after I had her.

Not that this matters, but how far did you live from the place that you had to go do wound back therapy?

10 minutes.

Okay.

Not far at all.

I'm just wondering like how awful, I mean, it's awful to have to go do it at all, but I was just thinking, goodness gracious, like some places you would live, I mean, in Austin, I'd be 30 minutes probably from the closest place that would do that.

So, I mean, I guess it's a blessing that it was kind of close by, but I'm so sorry that you experienced that.

So, how long did you have to do that for?

I had to do that for, I'm trying to think, probably maybe around three months, if I'm not mistaken.

Three months, going how many times a week?

About three times, two to three times.

Holy moly.

And how was your mental health?

Absolutely terrible.

There was a lot that I didn't know when I first had that in, when I first went to my OB's office, I had to explain to her, I said, I have never cried as much as I've cried.

Like I just randomly break down.

I feel like I'm not, I can't even see straight.

I feel like someone's hand is in front of my face.

And the only thing she explained to me, cause I'm like, y'all call it the baby blues, but you need to call it infant black, because this is terrible.

I cannot live my life this way.

And she explained to me, she said, your body still thinks you're pregnant.

It took you 10 months to get pregnant, to be pregnant.

And just overnight, the baby's out of your body.

And she said, give it, I forgot how many days.

She said, give it X amount of days and things are going to start coming together.

And then I remember when I was in the hospital, readmitted getting my IV antibiotics, that's when I started becoming more in touch with reality.

Don't get me wrong, I was still depressed.

I was still very sad, but I just felt a little more in touch with reality.

Like I could understand what was happening.

My mental health on that wound back was absolutely terrible.

It was, my wound back weighed as much as my newborn.

It was very, very painful.

And it was that type of pain, like I couldn't get a break from it.

It's not like I could take it off and take a little break.

It was 24 hour round the clock pain.

It was a very dark period of time.

And did they give you something to help with the pain?

Yes, they did.

They, I was able to take pain medication.

And especially before my wound back dressing changes, I was required to take that medication.

Which is also scary.

I mean, did they tell you if that would have anything to, any effect on breastfeeding or on your breast milk or?

No, thankfully it didn't.

I was still able to pump and nurse Ava while I was on the wound back.

Oh good.

So that's what I did.

So yeah, after Ava's birth, I entered the underground world of birth trauma.

Believe it or not, that's a thing.

For the next three years, I did an intense amount of research.

And it's funny, I joined this birth trauma support group on Facebook.

And one time there was this post that was made and it said, ladies, comment down below when you had your traumatic birth.

And let's see the trend.

And everybody that commented on there, I gave birth the Friday before Memorial Day, the Friday before Labor Day, July 3rd, December 23rd.

And I'm like, I gave birth to Ava November 22nd.

That's a Tuesday.

That Thursday was Thanksgiving.

Yes ma'am.

So that's when I, in that moment, I put two and two together.

This is why my OB rushed me to have this C-section, bullied me into the C-section and then rushed into recovery to tell me she's going out of town.

I had an unnecessary cesarean section so my provider can go on vacation, so she can get everything out of the way, so she can just leave.

Yeah.

And that's so common, unfortunately.

We are constantly having to tell our doula clients that are due around holidays, just know that we're probably going to be offered an induction a few days before that holiday so that they're not on call or less likely to be called for the holiday.

Christmas, Thanksgiving, super common, all of them are.

But if you go and you look at the numbers of babies, like how popular certain birthdays are, the birthdays that are holidays are much lower because of people pushing induction beforehand.

And of course, some people say no, but it's super common.

Yeah, it blew my mind.

I was like, wow.

So from then on, I just learned so much.

I spent the next three years just learning, like following the VBAC link, Badass Mother Birth are on Instagram.

I know you mentioned her in a previous episode.

I love her so much.

I love her too.

I did so much research on doulas and the importance of birthing classes, chiropractic care.

These are things I knew nothing about.

I'd been to the chiropractor prior to pregnancy, but I had no idea you can go to a chiropractor during pregnancy.

No idea.

Spinning babies, mild circuit, some things that I've never even thought to ask, the cesarean rate at these hospitals and at these practices and these providers.

It's funny, when I, after I had Ava, got out of recovery and got into my room, a postpartum nurse said to me, she's like, yeah, the cesarean rate is very high here.

And I'm like, wow, I never thought of that.

And some people don't realize that you can get those numbers, right?

Like they go, oh, great, I know after the fact, but some people don't realize that you can actually look that up.

So I will try to find the link for that and put that in the show notes, just so that people listening to this can use that.

It's a little bit harder sometimes to find specific providers, C-section rates, but that's also a question you should ask your provider.

And I always tell people, the bigger deal than how they answer is their demeanor while they're answering.

Like their actual answer isn't as important as how they treat you because you asked the question.

And if it's bugging them that you asked that question, that's a red flag.

Yes, yes, totally, absolutely.

Did you also, am I remembering right?

Did you also join like the ICANN network on Facebook, which is-

I did, yes.

VBAC group, okay.

I did, I joined many, many groups on Facebook.

Isn't that originally how you found your provider?

Yeah, it was like a recommended group.

Yeah, I believe in that group.

I, cause we, you know, we moved down to Austin and I, I was not pregnant yet, but I did want to find an OB who was VBAC friendly.

So I went to Dr.

Christina Sebastian.

I had my appointment with her.

My jewel was just my annual.

I was not pregnant yet and I just loved her.

I sat there and I thought too.

I sat there, my first appointment.

Yeah, my first appointment, just my annual.

I told her everything that happened with Ava and she sat there and she listened to me.

Like most importantly, she listened to me.

And she was spewing out facts about VBACs.

And I just knew in that moment, this is it.

I found her.

I found the unicorn.

And she was just explaining to me everything about Ava and Ava's positioning in the pelvis.

And the reason why she thinks I had, I ended up, I did not dilate due to the induction, due to the epidural and Ava's positioning within my pelvis.

So I would ask her.

Yes.

So, and she was just so friendly about everything regarding chiropractic care, regarding a doula.

She's like, oh, I love working with doulas.

And I just knew in that moment because she was just so friendly.

She tells me I run a tech, cause I knew it was like a collaborative care.

So I'm like, okay, I like you, but how about everybody else here?

She's like, I own this practice and I run a very tight ship.

When she said that, I'm like, I found her.

And just so that other people know listening.

So in the Austin area, we've talked about this a little bit before, but there are a lot of freestanding birth centers and there until this coming fall have not been an in-hospital birth center.

However, the practice that Dr.

Sebastian owned, which has now been sold, also had a birth center that they had in like in the same office building as their office.

It had like a little door that went to the other sides, which was across the street from the hospital.

So it was actually a birth center that was as close as you could get to an hospital in Austin.

It did end up going under, and then she ended up selling her practice.

And now the new practice is not very anything natural friendly, at least hasn't been for clients that we have seen go there.

But it really did used to be kind of a unicorn practice.

And every good thing comes to an end eventually sometimes.

But she also had midwives working for that practice.

So whether you were giving birth at the birth center, you would 100% have a midwife.

But if you were giving birth at the hospital, some of the midwives had rotation there.

And there was one that only worked on Saturdays, right?

Right.

Yes.

You were dying to have her.

Daniel was amazing.

Yes.

So when you...

Okay, so I went ahead.

You met with her for your annual, and then you were like, okay, this is who I'm going to stick with as my OB.

And how long after that, after kind of meeting her, did you conceive Niko?

Maybe around, maybe an odd four months later.

That's something else that happened quickly.

We weren't really trying too hard and just kind of happened, but we were very happy because we knew what we wanted a second baby.

We just didn't know when.

Yeah.

And that's when I interviewed you on the phone around 11 weeks.

I was so early.

I was, and my husband was so on board.

He really encouraged the VBAC and the doula.

So I interviewed you on the phone and I just felt like, this is it.

You were the first and only doula that I interviewed for Niko, and I just felt like I had just such a great connection with you, you as well.

Like I told you everything about Ava's birth.

I laid it out on the table and you listened, you validated my feelings and you really made me feel like you were just on my team and you were really going to advocate for the birth that I wanted.

Sure, just make me cry, whatever.

Okay, I'm going to go back and ask a question that I didn't ask, but I think I already know the answer.

You didn't have a doula with Ava, right?

No, I didn't even.

I feel like I don't even know, knew what a doula was like.

Yeah, I just I don't know.

Looking back, it's like, what was I thinking?

We all I didn't have a doula for my birthday either.

I loved how much Nick, your husband, was so on board.

He really it was funny.

He did come to a couple of the birth classes, a couple I think he couldn't come to because he was at work.

But he did like make it a point in the middle of the day to still try to make it, you know, come home and be able to go to those and everything I was teaching, it was almost like, duh.

Like he just was so on board that he was like, yeah, of course.

Yeah, I mean, him and I learned a lot with the first birth.

I feel like Nick during that period of time, he really had to be strong for me.

So he didn't show it, but I know that, you know, he was scared.

I feel like there was a point with me being in the hospital that he feels like, you know, what if I would have lost her?

What if I didn't bring her to the ER that night?

So I know that that was in the back of his mind.

And then seeing me on move back therapy, we didn't really get to enjoy Ava when she was a newborn.

And he saw just how depressed I was.

So that's something he was so on board about.

What I would tell him everything, like everything that I learned on the birth trauma groups, he was just mind blown.

It's funny, Dr.

Christina Sebastian, when I went to see her and I told her everything about Ava's birth, she says to me, so let me take a look at your C-section site.

I said, okay.

She's like, this is a really good looking scar.

And I'm like, oh, thanks.

And she's like the second person to tell me this, the second doctor to tell me this.

My husband gets so mad, just so infuriated when he hears that I have a good looking incision site.

He's like, you know why?

He's like, you know why?

Cause she was a surgeon.

She was a surgeon.

She wasn't an OBGYN.

She was a surgeon.

And I was like, yeah, she was.

There are some doctors that are really good surgeons and it's because they do a heck of a lot of it.

And hey, if you have to have a C-section, you don't go to one of them.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

So when you decided that you would have Niko, was the birth center open when you had Niko?

It was, I did ask.

But you decided to do the hospital.

No, when I went before I was pregnant to talk to Dr.

Sebastian, I did ask her, can I do the birthing center?

Cause I would have done it.

She's like, no, because you're a VBAC, you have to be in the hospital.

And I said, okay, you know, I was okay with that.

Yeah, they don't, at the time, they didn't do VBACs at the birthing center.

Otherwise I would have loved to have a birthing center birth.

Okay, so tell us a little bit about when you went into labor with Niko.

With Niko?

Yeah, do you remember what I'm insinuating?

Do you remember what you did that day?

That you went into labor with him?

Yes, it's funny that morning, you text me and you're like, Tony, I said happy Father's Day.

And I'm like, oh, you know, same to your hubby.

And I was like, I was really hoping I'd be in labor on Father's Day.

And you're like, oh, it can still happen.

And I'm like, no, it's not.

So my husband, it's the morning when you text me, he rolls over.

He said, do you want to do your maternity shoot today?

I said, no, it's Father's Day.

Let's just hang out.

He's like, no, let's get it done today.

I said, okay.

So mind you, I had my son June of 2020.

So it's a pandemic.

I hadn't done my hair and my makeup since before the pandemic happened.

So I just went all out.

I put on the heaviest glam eyeshadow.

You can think of my eyebrows, like false eyelashes.

My face was heavily contoured and highlighted.

Like I just went all out because I hadn't done my makeup in so long.

So I do my maternity shoot with Ava.

And right after that, I say, I have to go to the bathroom.

I had a bowel movement and I wiped.

I was like, that's different.

So I sent you a text and I'm saying, I'm like, hey, warning, incoming picture, warning, graphic.

Like that's what I text you.

Because I didn't know who you were sitting by.

My husband never checks my phone.

I'll tell you that right now.

Yeah.

Well, I didn't know if it was the kids there.

No, I know.

I'm just saying, my husband stays real far away from my phone because he knows I get pictures.

Right.

He's probably used to it too.

So I sent you pictures.

I'm like, is this my picture?

Is this my mucus plug?

You're like, yes, it is.

I'm like, okay, all right.

This never happened the first time.

So from there, I text you, I actually went back to our text messages.

I text you at two o'clock and at three o'clock, I'm just having just some slight cramping and I have the contraction app.

Mind you, just because I had that epidural with Ava so early, I have no idea what a contraction even feels like.

Yeah.

So I'm just on the contraction app, just trying to time these contractions and see where I'm at.

And my husband's like, I'm going to go to Target.

It was Father's Day.

I'm going to get some stuff to grow.

Like, okay.

So he left to Target.

And these contractions just got a little more intense.

I kept thinking, I have to poop.

I have to have a bowel movement.

So I get back into the bathroom and I'm not having a bowel movement, but I feel like I have to have it.

And I'm texting you, you're like, I'm screenshotting you everything on the contraction app.

And you're like, are your contractions one to five minutes apart?

I'm like, yeah.

That's what it was looking like.

Yeah.

Yeah, but they were short.

Yeah.

And I was at the soccer game with my husband for Father's Day.

He was playing soccer.

And so I had my kids and my husband at soccer.

And we live like 45 minutes from that soccer field, but it was close to where you were.

So I told my husband, I was like, babe, I might have to dip.

I might not have to take this game.

And he's like, how am I supposed to get home with the kids?

So I put my car seat in a friend's car.

And I was like, I know you don't live anywhere near us, but I think you need to take my family home later because I can travel.

And I was like, I'm just going to go now because I just didn't even trust it.

I was like, she, it's her second birth.

I'm just going to, I got to go.

And I was like 20 minutes away.

I was like, I'm leaving.

Nice.

Nice.

So my husband gets home from Target.

And from there, I call my OB's office.

It was a Sunday, so I was on the phone with the nurse.

And she was like, you know what, just come in.

I said, okay.

So my mother-in-law was going to come and stay with my three-year-old.

She's down in the valley.

So that's a five-hour drive.

We gave her the heads up.

She started getting on the road.

But I did have my girlfriend come over to stay with Ava until my mother-in-law got there.

And mind you, I am in the zone.

I'm on my birthing ball and I'm practicing my balloon breathing that I learned from hypnobirthing.

You're such a good student.

You just did all the things you were supposed to do.

I did.

It's funny.

To this day, my girlfriend brings up, she's like, when I walked in, you were so quiet.

Mind you, this is before she had her baby and before she was pregnant.

Now she's a mom.

But she was like, everything was just so quiet when I walked in there.

And I was just on my ball, just in my zone.

Like I wasn't even making noise.

I'm just concentrating.

You rocked it.

Thanks.

So me and Nick hop in the car.

We go to the hospital.

We get into triage.

They check me and I'm only four centimeters.

So that right there was a little discouraging.

And I know I had spoke with you about this.

And my husband was fully aware that I just want to be checked when I get there.

I do not want to know how many centimeters dilated I am because that is just, I feel like I will get discouraged and I will get in my head, but I wanted to know when I got there.

And that's really common too, just for people to know, like if somebody is having a VBAC, I often tell them it might be a good idea to not find out how many centimeters you are because you're going to get to this roadblock in your brain or you could.

It's like, oh, I'm not to the number that I stalled or quote unquote stalled at last time.

So I could still not make it.

I'm not going to make it.

I'm not going to make it.

Like I'm going to end up in a C-section again.

So I'm always excited.

Whatever number people got to last time centimeter wise, I'm always so excited next time once we finally get past that number because then their brain opens up and they're like, haha, I can do it, you know?

Yes, yes.

So then you arrived, and then I was able to get into labor and delivery, get a room inside labor and delivery.

And next thing I know, you're just putting me in all these different positions.

I was even laboring on the toilet for a while, and that's when it felt so intense.

And it's funny, I'm looking at your doula notes, and it said at the peak of a contraction, I would panic.

And I totally remember that.

I know I was panicking.

So I have it in my notes that in an hour and a half, so she checked me the first time.

I won't read through this, but in an hour and a half, an hour and a half later from my first check when I was four centimeters, the midwife Danielle comes in, and she's like, I'm going to go ahead and see how far along you are, how many centimeters you're dilated.

I said, okay, Nick spoke up and said, she doesn't want to know how many centimeters she is.

She said, okay, she respected that.

So she checked me.

She's like, Andrea, can I tell you how many centimeters you are?

I said, no.

She's like, I think you want me to tell you.

Can I tell you how many centimeters you are?

Like I said, she checked me.

I got checked an hour and a half earlier.

Like you're about to tell me I'm still at a four.

I'm going to lose it, lady.

So she's like, honey, you are a nine.

I remember my husband looked up at me.

There were tears in his eyes.

He's like, babe, you flew through those numbers.

You sure did.

And he's like, we're going to beat Nico.

Like I couldn't believe it.

Like I was for sure.

I thought I just stalled.

So things started getting pretty intense.

And I was wrong.

She, it was sun, I guess, Sundays that she was on, because that was Father's Day was a Sunday.

So she was who you were like, it's praying to get you just really wanted Danielle to be there.

Yeah.

And she was awesome.

She was so awesome.

And she's a VBAC mom too.

So that's nice.

She knew exactly what I was going through.

So she, it's funny, during labor, she called out.

She's like, I think a lot of this is fear.

And in that moment, I wasn't really paying attention to her.

But looking back, I felt like a lot of it was fear because I didn't know what was coming next, because it was still such a new experience.

You hadn't gotten to that point before.

No, I hadn't gotten to that point.

So you had me in a few labor positions.

I'm dancing around, slow dancing around the room with Nick when I would have a contraction.

And when I was pushing, when it got time to push, I just felt like I just wasn't pushing correctly, as weird as that sounds.

So I remember I told you, I need you to count down for me.

And I felt like once y'all started counting, that's when I finally got some nice pushes in and it came out.

You needed a cheerleader.

I did.

I needed that cheerleader.

I needed that push.

A shouting and almost like a party, like we're doing this.

Yes.

So, you know, with my C-section with Ava, it got so I didn't, with my C-section with Ava, like I just felt like everything just got progressively worse.

Like after the C-section was worse than during the C-section.

So I kind of like I looking back, Danielle was right.

It was a lot of fear that I was feeling because I didn't know what was going to happen next.

So I know that a lot of women say, Oh, once that baby's in your arms, the pain goes away.

I'm just like, no, that's a fairy tale.

Because once Ava, once I saw her, once she was in my arms, things just went downhill spiraling from there.

So something else that I didn't know about Birth, the second that he came out was the second that everything stopped.

The contraction stopped.

I think I was just so in shock to see him and the fact that I delivered him vaguely.

I actually did it without an epidural, without any pain medication.

So like...

And when he came out, just some people listening though, the contractions didn't stop, but you didn't feel them anymore.

You had to deliver the placenta, but your oxytocin, your natural oxytocin levels were through the roof.

And it was...

You had been so loved during your pregnancy, during your labor.

I have to tell this little side note real quick.

I don't know if you remember this.

You probably do.

But during her labor, there was a time, I guess they had prepared some cards, and I had actually given this as a recommendation, to take note cards with affirmations on them.

And they're a very faithful family, and so they put some Bible verses on there, and they had their daughter in it, doing it with them, helping color.

And so Nick, her husband, would take one out of his pocket and read it to her when he felt she was struggling.

And then he would show it to her and then put it in a different pocket so that he wouldn't reuse that same affirmation card.

Well, one time he picked one out of his pocket and he goes, Oh, look, honey, Ava drew this one.

And you looked and you're like, I colored that one.

So we had a good laugh.

It was a good laugh.

Yeah.

And it was like the natural oxytocin, the natural endorphins flowing.

And it was just so beautiful.

And you had been so loved throughout that process that after he was born, it was like, you finally got your thing.

You know, like, I remember I was crying.

Like, it was just so powerful what you had just accomplished in such a short amount of time.

Do you know how long it was from when you were nine centimeters until he was out?

I feel like we pushed a little while.

We did.

1044 to 1112 PM.

So 1044 to 1112.

That's not long at all.

I was remembering that it was felt long, but no, we were like 30 minutes of pushing.

That's incredible.

Especially for the first time your body had a baby come through your birth path, because second births tend to be faster, but not necessarily VBACS, because your body has to get through some numbers maybe that it didn't before, and the baby didn't descend all the way last time.

So Nico was like, no, I'm good.

Here we come.

Yes.

Awesome.

So those first moments with him were so much more peaceful.

They were.

It was so beautiful.

Like I got to do skin to skin with him for two hours.

I got to nurse him right away.

Like it was just so magical.

I did not get that experience with Ava.

You know, I wasn't the first one to hold her.

I got to recovery, and then I held her.

And I just, it just felt so good just to be just so.

I honestly just felt so euphoric after his birth.

The second that he came out, I felt euphoric.

And like you said, I was delivering a placenta.

I didn't feel not one thing.

And mind you, I didn't have enough to throw.

I didn't have anything.

And the second he was in my arms was just so magical.

So great.

I know my husband, he was panicking a little bit because he wasn't crying right away.

But I just knew a mother's instinct.

The second that he got on my chest, I knew he was fine.

It took him a little bit to cry, but I was not worried.

I was not scared.

I knew that he was fine.

I just felt him on me.

I'm like, everything's going to be okay.

And he did.

He let out a strong cry.

It took him a little while to get there, but he let out a strong cry.

And like I said, it was just so amazing just to have that two hours skin to skin with him.

It just felt so great to have such an amazing recovery.

It was, I believe it was two or three days, maybe because you got to remember I had him so late at night.

So it was like two days.

Yeah.

And then how was it going home and recovering and having him home with Eva?

Recovery was just out of this world.

It was amazing.

I felt like there was that tiny bit of fear because you got to remember, I didn't get that infection.

My incision site didn't rupture until Eva was like eight days old.

So I felt like on a scale from one to ten, I was sore with the soreness being a two.

And then I remember around a few days postpartum, my soreness, mind you soreness, not pain got to like a three, I would say.

I actually did call my OB's office and I said, hey, I told him my background.

I'm like, am I, do you think I'm okay?

She's like, no, you're probably just overdoing it.

You know, getting more confidence because you're feeling so good about things.

So other than that, it was just such an amazing recovery.

I felt like I got to enjoy him as well as enjoy my three year old.

She just loved him so much.

She was so happy to see him.

And to this day, they're just so close and so cute.

I love that so much.

Now, because of your experiences, pretty night and day.

This might be a hard question, and I hope it's okay for me to ask this.

Do you feel like your VBAC was healing from your first experience, or does it make you more sad from your first experience?

It definitely was such a healing experience.

It was very healing.

It was very empowering.

It just felt great.

I definitely healed.

I'm so glad.

I wanted it so bad for you.

Of course, I want it for everybody.

But you had just had such a rough go your first time around, and you did everything right.

I was like, there's just no way it can go wrong.

We just can't.

It's not a possibility.

I can't even put it in my brain.

So maybe last question for you.

What do you feel made the biggest difference between your first and second birth experience?

And it's okay if it's more than one thing.

And I'm guessing education was part of it.

Yes, definitely.

It was education, doing all the research that there is to do, just learning about everything as far as doulas, chiropractic care, spinning babies, also working out and staying active.

With Ava, I felt like I stopped working out early on in the pregnancy, whereas Nico, I was still lifting weights up until I was 38 weeks pregnant.

And then after 38 weeks, I would still walk a mile or two while listening to the VBAC link.

I'd walk around my neighborhood.

The day before I went into labor, I walked two miles around the neighborhood while listening to the VBAC link.

And the morning that I went into labor, or the day that I went into labor, the only reason why I didn't go on my two mile walk was because I was doing my maternity photos.

It's probably good you didn't, so that you had a little extra energy for that labor.

I'm so glad I did it.

So yeah, I went into labor fully glammed, and I'm not the type of mama to like put on makeup before I go into labor.

So that was kind of funny that I had.

It was hilarious.

I remember at one point, I didn't want to say anything, and you were like full blown in labor.

But at one point I looked at you and it was like a peaceful moment.

I was like, I have to ask you.

What?

Like, what's with the makeup?

Because again, like you never had that much makeup on, and you're like, oh, I did my maternity shoot today.

And I just laughed so hard.

I was like, of course he would come when you're ready for photos.

Like, sure, mom, you want to look pretty in your pictures?

Yeah, it's so funny.

When I got on postpartum with Nico, the nurse looked at me and I was like, the only reason why I have this much makeup on is because I have my maternity photos today.

This was not planned.

I would never go into labor looking like this.

I remember you like qualifying it for people because you were worried they would think you were just some extra chick walking in with your makeup all done.

Like they're judging me, but I'm not that person.

And even if you were, who cares?

I have moms who do their makeup for labor actually all the time.

But I just knew that wasn't you, so that's why I called you out on it.

Anything that you, like any advice that you would give or any last words that you want to say for anyone listening to this?

To any moms that experience traumatic births, I know firsthand how just devastating it could be.

And it's completely not fair, and your feelings are valid.

Go through the motions, mourn that, grieve that, but get back up.

And if that's something, you know, you do want to have another baby.

You know, not everybody wants to have another baby.

There's hope.

Do your research, really advocate for yourself.

Find a doula to advocate for you.

Get your partner involved.

Make sure your OB knows what exactly you want.

Go into your birth with birth options, not necessarily a birth plan.

I remember I told you, Ciarra, I have birth options.

I did not want to have another Caesarian.

I did have a birth plan regarding my Caesarian to prevent another infection.

If I did have to get a C-section, I would have to get pico dressing over my incision site.

I remember that.

Immediately after, immediately post-op.

And basically it's just a negative pressure bandage, somewhat similar to a womb vac, but it's not a womb vac that goes over your incision site.

And it stays on there for a few days.

It's not painful.

It's just like a bandage.

And it's supposed to help prevent infections and speed up healing.

I remember I had that in my phone.

I had that like saved in my phone.

I was like, this is the one thing.

If we end up in another cesarean, like I have to make sure everybody knows.

Yeah.

Yes.

And I even told the practice that I need this, this negative pressure room back in case I do need another cesarean.

And they respected that.

And that's something that I didn't have the first time around with Ava post-op.

Yeah.

You just seriously just took the bull by the horns.

And it was just such an honor and blessing to be by your side and see you come into all of that.

And I can't even take credit.

Like you knew so much before you came to me, but the relationship that we established and the comfort level between me, you and your husband was so nice.

And I'm lucky because I get to see these people at little meetups that we do around town.

I'm always sad when people move away.

So I'm glad that they still live not too far.

And I just really thank you for coming on here and being vulnerable enough to tell us your story.

And you guys mean the world to me.

Thank you so much for having me, Ciarra.

You definitely hold a special place in my heart.

I think you played a big role in my VBAC and just being there for me and my husband, and I'm very appreciative.

Absolutely.

All right, y'all.

Well, join us next week.

We'll have more fun stuff for you.

And thank you guys for your support.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining us on Birth, Baby!

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